Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

[quote noblegiraffe]There's a petition here for government to fully fund schools for their additional Covid costs. It would be great to see it debated in parliament and for the government to have to defend their stance given their willingness to pay out for so many other covid measures.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/555718[/quote]
Thank you. Have signed and shared.

Do you know, Clav, when I posted that petition I nearly said ‘Clav will be along in a minute to say that schools are actually rolling in cash because they saved money on photocopying in lockdown’.

I’m guessing that the primary head who started the petition knows more about the state of their school finances than you.

And the hundreds of heads requesting urgent support here www.tes.com/news/new-covid-cash-plea-schools-despair-failing-dfe

@Clavinova

There's a petition here for government to fully fund schools for their additional Covid costs.

•reimburse schools' lost income from Covid-19 (eg. rental/lettings)

The petitioners haven't considered expenses not incurred by schools this year, e.g. secondary schools (state and private) have received a partial refund or credit from the exam boards - for public examinations not taken in 2020. As parents at a private school we have received a partial refund for ds1's A-level examination fees (parents with dc at private schools are responsible for paying public exam fees - separately invoiced through the school).These refunds/credits could easily add up to tens of thousands of pounds for many/most secondary schools.

I think you'll find they have. What my primary school saved in pencils, photocopying and electricity from the small number of classrooms not used for keyworkers or returning children spread into smaller bubbles in the summer term pales into significance in comparison with what we are spending on heating, cover, cleaning products etc.

@Clavinova

There's a petition here for government to fully fund schools for their additional Covid costs.

•reimburse schools' lost income from Covid-19 (eg. rental/lettings)

The petitioners haven't considered expenses not incurred by schools this year, e.g. secondary schools (state and private) have received a partial refund or credit from the exam boards - for public examinations not taken in 2020. As parents at a private school we have received a partial refund for ds1's A-level examination fees (parents with dc at private schools are responsible for paying public exam fees - separately invoiced through the school).These refunds/credits could easily add up to tens of thousands of pounds for many/most secondary schools.

Of course! That's why state schools are suddenly awash with functioning technology, an excess of teachers and have sorted out all their falling down buildings.

Silly old us.

Clavinova just out of interest, do you mind me asking how much the exams cost and how much you were refunded?

My interest is that in the old 'O' level/CSE system, lots of my friends sat both exams, as it was considered that they might not get a 'C' in 'O' level but would at least get a decent grade in CSE.

I think it was about £50 a subject then - I'm interested in the comparison to now.

signed and shared

Clavinova just out of interest, do you mind me asking how much the exams cost and how much you were refunded?

A-level exam fees are upwards of £80, £90, £100 each depending on the subject/board - more for some practical subjects. DC's school have been over-generous with their refunds but state schools were refunded at least 23-26% per exam fee. One exam board, AQA; "We passed savings of £42 million back to schools and colleges by refunding 26 per cent of entry fees for summer 2020." GCSE examination fees appear to be upwards of £36/£41 depending on the subject/board - but a 26% refund for each pupil sitting 9 subjects soon adds up.

Extended Christmas holiday I reckon.

So Clav £41 x 0.26 = 10.66

Approx 200 in year 11, taking 8 subjects each so 10.66 x 200 x 8 = £16'960.

Considering our school budget is £1m ish a year, this is a drop in the ocean.

Supply costs at the moment is approx £200 per day (higher in many areas/subjects). Last week we had 8 supply teachers in every day. That's almost half of that exam 'saving' gone in a week.

How much do think the primary head who started the petition clawed back in exam refunds Clav?’

Don’t forget schools will be expected to fund the first 25% of any catch-up tutoring which is a new cost.

Clav

No real savings at my infant school. Exam refunds not applicable.
School was open with full bubbles for March including Easter and May holidays.

As well as for cleaning, etc we have increased costs for providing children with their own equipment to reduce sharing, so need more pencil cases stationery, etc.

Increased spending on learning platforms etc to ensure we can offer more reliable remote learning.

More spending on supply staff to cover teaching staff who are still off sick with Covid, such as myself.

We really aren't rolling on saved money this year!!

Spain and Italy wear masks outside and their infection rates rising also I need to get fresh air outside wearing a mask outside as well can't build up your immune system

It's clear from this post you don't understand how the immune system works.

What you mean is "I find wearing a mask uncomfortable so I don't want to wear one outdoors".

"but a 26% refund for each pupil sitting 9 subjects soon adds up."

Does it?

Rounding figures for the sake of ease, a 25% refund of a £40 exam fee is £10. Times 9 per pupil, max of £90 refunded per GCSE pupil.

Say 200 children enrolled in Y11 gives £18,000 refund per school.

Do you know what that actually equates to in the running of a school?

It wouldn't touch what has and will be spent on extra cleaning, floor markings, Perspex barriers, hand sanitiser yet alone lost earnings.

The biggest increase in cost is paying for supply though (where they are available). A supply teacher costs a school around £200 a day. That will really quickly eat through any money saved in the summer, or money refunded from exams.

At my school, we used some of the exam refund to put students in for autumn exams as well- obviously most didn't go for this option, but it does mean that part of the refund came back in and then went straight back out again.

We are being asked to do a lot of cover to keep supply costs down, as well as part time staff doing supply (keeps down agency fees) but long term I am not sure it is a saving, as people consistently losing their PPAs to cover are probably more likely to go off sick (and of course they are exposed to more students, so more chance of them needing to isolate).

I actually do wonder if schools in some areas should close for 2 weeks as a sort of "hard reset". It's clear coronavirus is endemic in some schools and it would be worth considering whether 2 weeks "lost learning" is better than a whole term of significantly disrupted learning...

You, again 🙄

Why don’t you drop the pretence that you don’t want schools to close, when the plethora of threads with ‘data’ you have started demonstrate exactly the opposite?

My daughter goes to a small - medium-sized state primary and there hasn’t been ONE confirmed Covid case. Not a single one. And I know this for a fact from sources close to the school staff/governors. I appreciate that we are in the minority, but clearly there are schools with very few cases/no cases.

It would be a disaster for schools to close and yet - objectively, my own feelings as a parent aside - that is probably what would need to happen in large swathes of the country to properly reduce the spread. But its not going to happen, for all the reasons we already know about. Prioritising our children’s education and mental health simply has to come above anything else.

Sad to see that any dissenting voices on this thread (voices of reason?) are so swiftly silenced, either by MNHQ or by other posters. I fully expect that this will be deleted. There seems to be an agenda on here and anyone who disagrees is either ridiculed or silenced.

Aahhhhjjjhghfyhchcgygcc @Crownofthorns NO ONE IS SAYING CLOSE SCHOOLS. No one. Ever. Not all all. Never. We are saying make them safe. Why can't people listen ? My students get it. They think it's bonkers.

I agree. Schools are fucked. They have been for some time. The pandemic has made this more obvious and made an already bad situation considerably worse.

Years of underfunding has led to large class sizes, lack of (or outdated) equipment and buildings badly in need of repair and modernisation. The government's meddling in setting the curriculum has meant children being taught unnecessary and frankly useless terminology (take the year 6 grammar requirements for one) in order to pass unnecessary tests. Gove has a lot to answer for here.

League tables and sats tests have done so much damage to schools who are now so focused on their results that nothing else matters. So much of the lovely extra things that made learning relevant and exciting have been squeezed out. Covid has made this way worse.

There are so many posters here that seem satisfied with the situation because their children aren't at home. It is great that schools are open. We all want this. But we should want so much more. Our children deserve a good relevant eduction, not outdated, Gove-like, rote learned, fact based shit. Children deserve a clean, safe environment to work in with small classes and modern equipment (children can't even use computers in my school at the moment). Teachers need laptops that can cope running the apps that they need to support blended learning (the staff laptops in my school keep crashing).

SATs, Year 1 phonics checks, Year 4 times tables checks (children need 100% to pass this timed test), GCSEs and A Levels are all going ahead as normal this year. Things are not normal. Children and teachers do not need this unfair pressure when so many have missed so much face to face teaching.

What is happening currently will have an impact on schools for many years to come. Schools are fucked.

What does WHO say about safe schooling?

The only dissenting voice was deleted because MNHQ identified them as a troll.

Plenty of voices on either side and - indeed- in the middle.

How did schools save money during lockdown?

Many were still open for the kw and vulnerable. Buildings have running costs regardless of if they are empty or not such as their utilities and some “rent” (I’m not sure if it goes down as rent or something else hence the quotation).

Schools that were bullied from local parents to still deliver the suspended curriculum had running costs.

The packages they were told to print and deliver back in March as the school were shut didn’t come for free.

The additional cleaning equipment. The extra hand soap.

The extra books and stationary they have provided. Things pupils usually have on the you must provide/have with you at all times things like calculators and the rest they were never providing.

Schools that are insisting on masks are providing them for low income families. Some schools staff volunteering to get them washed (initials and year marked) knowing it’s another expense they cannot
afford. Next it will be thermals.

How does ‘fresh air’ build up ones immune system?

lonelyplanet you are absolutely right.

Crown who is calling for schools to be closed?
Threads deleting having nothing to do with silencing but troll behavior.

The only silencing I can see happening on this thread are from those saying oh bore off, not this again. Go away with your agenda.

Why do people assume that safer conditions equate closure and no education? When there are a plethora of option that schools could use if they were allowed to and given funds to implement this by working closely with the lea.

Actually OP, it's only the positivity rate that's highest in the secondary school age group, the case rate is approx half that of the 20-29 age group. Positivity rate is how many are positive out of how many are tested, so 15%-20% of high school students being tested are positive, which is higher than other age groups in the community but doesn't translate to a higher number of cases.

I wouldn't rely on random articles as they like to put a particular spin on it, the government will be looking at their surveillance data which is what I look at: www.gov.uk/government/statistics/national-flu-and-covid-19-surveillance-reports

There seems to be an agenda on here and anyone who disagrees is either ridiculed or silenced.

Yet that is exactly what you are doing to the OP. Ridiculing and silencing her with your opening line. It’s okay to have your opinion but it’s not on to accuse the OP of something they haven’t done, in order to get her to stop posting.

I’d have a read back on this thread and note that it’s not just confirmed cases that are the issue.