Secondary schools are fucked, BOFFINS ADMIT

[noblegiraffe]

Latest ONS random sampling data shows that secondary school children in Y7-11 are now the age group with the highest infection rate in England, overtaking sixth form and university students.

In Wales "Schoolchildren are more likely to catch and spread coronavirus than previously thought, experts have warned... It was also discovered that while children were far more likely to be asymptomatic and not become seriously unwell, they were more likely to be the first positive case in any household."

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/health/schoolchildren-more-likely-catch-spread-19275959?fbclid=IwAR0kpoikv0D_nkwHx3lVyQX_cyDj6Ycy1d6gE3aRx6syxUKzFQsYzMDSqPw

English boffins are a bit slower on the uptake though
"SAGE’s report found that prevalence of Covid-19 in school-age children had “risen significantly” in the first wave, and that the rise in prevalence was “first visible around the time that schools reopened”.

However, it said that while this “may be indicative of a potential role for school opening, causation, including the extent to which transmission is occurring in schools, is unproven and difficult to establish”.

schoolsweek.co.uk/child-infection-rate-rise-began-when-schools-reopened-but-direct-link-unproven-says-sage/

It must indeed be difficult to establish whether there's transmission in a high risk environment where kids are packed in like sardines with no mitigation measures. A real head-scratcher. Especially if you spent the whole summer insisting that it would be fine because the kids are facing forward.

What do we want? Well, one of the major teaching unions has called on the government to:

1. Demonstrate that they are following the scientific evidence and advice.
2. Strengthen the guidance to schools and colleges on ensuring COVID-safe and COVID-secure working practices.
3. Secure the updating and publication of health and safety risk assessments and equality impact assessments by school and college employers.
4. Publish weekly data on positive cases of COVID-19 infections of school/college staff and pupils by local government area
5. Ramp up inspection and enforcement measures in schools and colleges, including more comprehensive use of spot checks and visits by the Health and Safety Executive (HSE).
6. Take swift action to protect public health in the event of an outbreak.
7. Protect vulnerable teachers and support staff and pupils.
8. Strengthen the guidance to insist on effective social distancing in schools/colleges.
9. Establish a national plan for remote education/blended and distance learning.

10. Provide significant additional financial support for schools and colleges urgently to ensure the safety of staff and pupils, including extra funding for cleaning, personal protective equipment (PPE) and supply teachers

www.nasuwt.org.uk/article-listing/plan-to-keep-schools-safe-during-pandemic.html

Oh OP I knew this would be you yadayada...yeah that's why I chose the same thread title as before etc etc.

Why do we need another thread blah blah: it's because secondary school kids are now infected at the highest rates in the country. This has implications for lockdown. How effective will it be if the most infected subset of the population are mixing freely? And it's also the first hint from scientists that they might have been wrong about exactly how safe schools are. There's also a strong suggestion that kids are bringing the virus home from school which parents should be aware of.

It's also causing chaos in schools, but there's another thread about that.

[quote wildbarnet]@canigooutyet what is the point of raising concerns on MN what exactly can you do ? Speak to your MP or the school going over the same thing on MN all the time just fuels anger I don't think the scientists will be looking on here and it suddenly changes ! [/quote]
It’s new data that is being discussed.
Are you also on the furlough threads asking why they are talking about the same crap over and over? Wanting to know how to stay wfh?

Talking about things helps to raise awareness you do realise that don’t you?

And why shouldn’t we be angry?
You might be happy that our children have been neglected by the government but I’m not.

Media won’t talk about it because it doesn’t meet the narrative of schools are secure. The few that do are told it’s fake, nothing to see move along.

Without government admitting schools need a cash injection, the situation is not sustainable.

Same with the nonsense about parents don’t need to let them know - isn’t this what t&t was designed for? And was a part of the original plans to try and keep them open?

It’s not the scientists that are blocking anything it’s your voteD in officials. Some are parents, hopefully they do come on here and who knows reading about the failures may finally get through.

And perhaps instead of them constantly arguing with Unions about how to do this effectively, we still wouldn’t be in this shit now.

I'd love to see research into the different ways schools have adapted, perhaps we can sort out which are most effective.

Our fir example seems to have focused on keeping movement around school to a minimum and wiping down classrooms between year groups. This means students are staying in ome room for a couple fo lessons, with teachers moving.

Now we're clear that the virus is airborne, it seems ventilation is key.

In the afternoon most secondary schools here don't have a break, would it make sense for lessons to be 5 minutes shorter so there is time to fully open the windows and air out the classroom.

Airing out rooms only works when there are opening windows. Lots of classrooms don't have this. It would make sense to do it in classrooms that do.

@thingsarelookingup we find it baffling too. Masks work. So wear one.

My school's lack of desk cleaning isn't taken into account by T&T when deciding who to isolate so I'm not convinced they think it's important at all.

We decided not to clean desks because our 'zones' are only used by one year group and they are in a 'bubble'. This hasn't changed even though the bubble are no longer sent home for a case.

As a parent I can be as supportive as I possibly can. My support doesn’t help sort out lessons for GCSEs if his teachers aren’t there and he’s at home again isolating.

@canigooutyet

As a parent I can be as supportive as I possibly can. My support doesn’t help sort out lessons for GCSEs if his teachers aren’t there and he’s at home again isolating.

Exactly - which is why we need to reduce transmission in schools by adopting the WHO recommendations

@WhyNotMe40

I do wonder if the posters who get so upset at teenagers having to cope with school looking a bit different (masks in class, part time in person teaching etc) would benefit from reading some research on ACEs - adverse childhood experiences. This is connected to what Ecosse/Madrid keeps coming out with in that children who experience a large number of adverse childhood experiences (traumas) without adequate support, are likely to do less well in life, and suffer poorer health. The research also points out that one should not try to shield children from all adverse experiences - with the support of at least one influential adult ACEs build resilience for later life. In other words masks and safety is NOT "fucking up" their lives as long as they have supportive adults. If the teachers go off sick them those kids who do not have supportive adults at home will be the ones who suffer. Those kids who do have supportive adults at home will actually build their resilience from this if they are not over protected and their feelings/experiences squashed/silenced.

On the other hand, losing a parent at a young age DOES fuck up your life royally.

There is research linking loss of your mum at primary school age or before to depression in later life (which makes sense).

Also, I have seen in my own family how losing her dad in her mid teens meant that my mum didn't go to teacher training college. And losing both parents by the age of 11 meant my dad, who was very bright, didn't go to the excellent school his mum had planned for him, and then never really found a career that fully used his talents.

I don't want to risk that happening for my kids. I think parents are more important for education than schools, if you are forced to make a choice (and we are being forced to make a choice thanks to the fucking incompetent useless bastards that were inexplicably voted in. WHO voted for fucking useless Boris and his bunch of idiot cronies? Strewth)

Totally agree

There's a petition here for government to fully fund schools for their additional Covid costs. It would be great to see it debated in parliament and for the government to have to defend their stance given their willingness to pay out for so many other covid measures.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/555718

In most classrooms, windows are already as wide open as they can be all the time, all the way through all lessons. It's why it's so cold. They don't open more than 3/4 inches for health and safety (hollow laugh).

Extra breaks wouldn't mean we could open the windows winder. Though it would give a few minutes and more opportunity for the air from one class to leave the room. It's a good idea, except for when it's raining heavily and the children would need to be allowed to be somewhere else inside anyway.

When I was at school you had your single desks with lift up lids and you put your text books etc in there. Possibly you could do without an inkwell nowadays . The big windows were above eye height when you were sitting down so nothing to distract. Ceilings were tall and windows open. The teacher taught from the front on a slightly raised platform. It was an old purpose built Victorian school room. Seems perfect for today’s schooling.

We are a one room minimum movement school, every window that can be is open to help maintain ventilation. Non fire doors kept open, which aren’t that many since they were updated after the terror alerts the other year. (Iirc the school I was in at the time also did something to windows so they couldn’t be open, especially on the ground floor).

We are in London and have been getting sent home since September. Several people are still off from them and nothing appears to be settling here.

It’s also a very small catchment area and the last travel to school questionnaire showed before CV 95% of them walked or rode bicycle.
The class sizes are also smaller than your average state secondary - max of 25 pupils.

On paper it should be securish.
Had the schools been given more freedom they would have been able to keep them more secure. After they were allowed more pupils in back in June they took full advantage and created workable plans based on that school community. Then the guidelines were finally made.

If figures are still high on December 3rd wonder if people will wake up then and see the connection.

Signed that petition, @noblegiraffe

Zanda, my sons is one of the old Victorian schools with high ceilings and single desks. When I looked around first time round 15+ years ago I was amazed to see those types of desks still.
Fast forward years later and still there they are (not sure if they are the exact same ones lol).

They’ve had many updates over the years but retained all the original features as much as possible. Every time the table update talks gets mentioned it doesn’t seem to go down too well.

aragog I hope you get fully better very soon. I am glad your GP is supporting you in signing you off.

Thank you. Yes, the doctors have been great fortunately. As have my school. Don't think anyone wants a dangerously high blood pressure spike related incident in the classroom - now that really wouldn't be ideal for the children!!

I have an appointment with my rheumatologist this week too so can update them on the Covid stuff. They were already concerned about my returning to work across the school so will be interesting to update them on what's gone on, the Covid etc. Especially as due to return to work the week after this one.

It looking forward to the cold. My arthritis pain is bad enough in a normal cold winter let alone one where my class room will be freezing all day every day. Have invested in a whole bundle of thermals plus thermal and fleece lined tights. Have some new fingerless gloves on order too! Might have to see about some of those hand warmer things!

@thingsarelookingup

I work in a school in Melbourne and masks are compulsory for all students over 12 in lessons (and everywhere else outside your home) despite having zero cases for 15 days now. There's a chance this requirement will be lifted outdoors in a week but unlikely it will be lifted indoors. The response every time a journalist asks about it is it's an effective and low cost response so it stays. I find it baffling they are not required in England.

Spain and Italy wear masks outside and their infection rates rising also I need to get fresh air outside wearing a mask outside as well can't build up your immune system

Yes cold classrooms. Hardly a great safe space for the vulnerable are they, let alone anyone else.

With the stance on no alternatives other than all in school full time, once again the vulnerable will be one of the worse hit.

Fuel poverty at home, lack of income to pay for additional clothing such as thermals. From a cold home to a cold school and back home again.

Yet I am naive about vulnerable children in schools because I don’t want this current in full time at all costs or dereg/close schools down.

Stop patronising those in education, those who are front line, and let them be flexible with how they manage to be secure for those who need to whilst maintaining to keep educating the whole school.

And yes, why aren’t WHO being listened to? They had blueprints and plans online months ago about how to do this including proper ventilation. Opening a window isn’t manageable long term.

I see the kids from our high school walking home together. They walk close together; they hug, kiss, hold hands, walk arm in arm...

They’ve been told it’s safe for them to be together, so who can blame them?

I know of teenagers who are struggling massively with MH issues at the moment too. It really is a tricky situation for schools.

And how many of them are huddling up for some shared heat? Cannot blame them.

Someone mentioned pupils go in during play if it’s rainy. I’ve rarely seen this happening at secondary school due to staffing and space. They are normally out there in all weathers unless they are reasons to be inside. Same as it was when I was in school far too many years ago!!

I've signed too.

Moi aussi

There's a petition here for government to fully fund schools for their additional Covid costs.

•reimburse schools' lost income from Covid-19 (eg. rental/lettings)

The petitioners haven't considered expenses not incurred by schools this year, e.g. secondary schools (state and private) have received a partial refund or credit from the exam boards - for public examinations not taken in 2020. As parents at a private school we have received a partial refund for ds1's A-level examination fees (parents with dc at private schools are responsible for paying public exam fees - separately invoiced through the school).These refunds/credits could easily add up to tens of thousands of pounds for many/most secondary schools.

My children's secondary has multiple cases in the staff and pupils. Hundreds of students self isolating time and time again. I feel its not sustainable for the safety nor is it a level playing field for education.

@Northernsoulgirl45

Remember Boris visiting schools with a few random kids in view, when the rest of the class were crammed up the other end of the room, out of camera-shot?.

O yes the one where the child called him an arsehole.

lololol I hadn't seen that.

Good thing he didn't come anywhere near my son's school in that case, he would get a right earful.