This scientist thinks we have got everything very, very wrong

[queenofknives]

I mean, he's pretty convincing so far tbh. Anyone else watching?

50,000 where Covid is mentioned on the death certificate is very different to 50,000 died of Covid.

We use the first one.

The lockdown we are in is hardly a strict lockdown. I’ve been out to shop for my dad who is vulnerable. His town centre had a steady stream of people, lots of shops were open as ‘essential’. Buses had people on. It’s hardly restricted movement. Places that didn’t have full lockdowns still introduced measures of sorts and people were careful themselves too.

Lots of things I enjoy are closed or restricted this year but I can see the bigger picture. It’s not forever and I want to keep those I care for safe: 50,000 people died, even if we leave a margin of error it’s a lot of people that even if elderly or vulnerable could of had years left.

The NHS is just about coping. Flu season hasn’t kicked in and hopefully maybe it won’t be as bad due to social distancing and masks. The trust I work for is busy with covid on general wards and crit care, it’s trying to keep as much running as possible and is using private facilities as covid safe. If it got much worse by not having restrictions the NHS wouldn’t function due to being overwhelmed and losing even more staff to sickness/isolation.

Schools in some areas are really struggling with staffing now due to covid or contact isolation. If we didn’t have restrictions it would be even worse. I don’t see why people can’t see this? Normal still wouldn’t be normal.

Since march I have been seeing doctors pop up explaining why masks are harmful to people's health and sooner or later they get censored. I have no doubt this interview will disappear from youtube too

@ILoveMyMonkey

How do people really not understand how low the death rate is. The UK has a population of 67,886,011 people and the covid death rate today is 50,365. As percentage that is 0.07%. That is extremely low. OP I'm with you, normal life again please.

The number of breast cancer deaths per year is 11,400. By your (erroneous) way of calculating, the death rate is 0.017%. So why are we bothering to screen? And why would we ask anyone to check their breasts? And why should anyone worry about that?

Long covid isn’t a laugh either so that’s what you’d be signing people up to.

I am interested to see the studies on them, how long their immunity lasts and if the damage their first contact has then leaves damage that makes it more severe the second time.

This. We can't live this way anymore. Social distancing is cruel and a form of torture. I know my own mental health is deteriorating and I genuinely fear what I'll do to myself if I have to live this pointless existence for much longer.

I'm sorry to hear you're suffering so much. I agree it is unbelievably cruel. Humans are social animals - we need each other, we need physical contact, we need social contact - when humans don't have this, we get sick. Isolation is a genuine punishment for prisoners - being forcibly isolated is known to be inhumane. I genuinely don't believe that we can keep going on this way. Even if lockdown was the best way to stop the virus, would it be worth it? Will it be worth the cost to our sanity, relationships, childhood, education and all the rest of it?

@AntiHop

But also, please note some countries have had a more measured approach and have not had lockdowns or only minimal ones.

And which countries have done this

@queenofknives?
None that I have heard of. The countries that have done well with keeping numbers low have strict rules/high compliance with rules (like Japan and new Zealand).

Japan and New Zealand are islands, so they would have found it far easier to contain the virus, and prevent new cases from arriving by sea or air.

If only we were an island.

Oh, wait.....

@GoldenOmber

We’ve had an awful lot of excess deaths this year, in lots of different countries, all correlated with high covid rates. What do you think’s killing them - bizarre spate of bus accidents?

Lockdown is killing them. Sweden has a lower death rate that usual this year.

This is such bollocks! Surely the 'its just the flu' people and those saying it barely kills anyone are being wilfully and deliberately ignorant at this late stage in the game.

Lockdown is killing them.

What, even in places that didn’t have one? Bloody hell, it’s powerful.

Just been googling why Spain has had an upsurge in infections. It's not because they wear too many masks, that's for sure. Seems the population's movements aren't nearly as firmly controlled as some posters claim, and that track and trace efforts make even the UK's system look efficient (well, that may be a little harsh actually, nothing could do that). Maybe they ought to lock up all the over 60s (I may be a little bitter over this totally crap suggestion, being over 60 myself, also somewhat overweight, but working full time and having a mortgage to pay ffs).

Back to the UK, I may be wrong about this, but the recording of all deaths with COVID as COVID deaths" was I think changed some months ago?

Well I think there are certainly possibilities for vulnerable people to be supported to be at home and to isolate from others. It is a shame if a minority of people can't live normal life because of the threat of this virus, but I think it's selfish to expect everyone to give up their lives. I'm sure that there are sensible solutions that could be put in place.

How many more times does it need to be explained why this isn't possible @queenofknives?

Many extremely clinically vulnerable people have to see health and social care professionals regularly (eg home visits from district nurses or care workers). Many live in care homes where they are with care workers all day. Many need in person hospital treatment. Many have school aged children.

So how can those vulnerable people totally isolate from others? Millions of people have been shielding, but no contact with others at all is not feasible.

Also many more vulnerable people are key workers themselves, who other people are relying on.

It’s not forever and I want to keep those I care for safe

I hope you're right. I hope it's not forever, and I hope it does keep people safe. But I'm not convinced. I would like to see a genuine public debate and for the government to be held to account for their decisions on this in a meaningful way. Otherwise, we are just being asked to do what we're told on the basis of data and science that scientists keep popping up and telling us is not right. Maybe it is right, maybe the government are doing all the right things. But I don't trust the government, and I want to see them held to account before I resign myself to giving up my life, plans, goals, relationships or anything else.

Just going to zoom in on that excess deaths graphs image I posted...

@queenofknives

I'm getting to the point where I think the only way forward now is to ditch masks, forget about social distancing, ignore the lockdown and just go back to life. We can't lose all our rights and freedoms, give up the nhs and go into a devastating economic depression for a virus that kills virtually no one.

To be fair, 50000 people isn’t “virtually no one”

I'm sorry to hear you're suffering so much. I agree it is unbelievably cruel. Humans are social animals - we need each other, we need physical contact, we need social contact - when humans don't have this, we get sick. Isolation is a genuine punishment for prisoners - being forcibly isolated is known to be inhumane.

But you're quite happy to inflict it on a significant proportion of the population who have the bad judgement to be in some way vulnerable.

@GoldenOmber

We’ve had an awful lot of excess deaths this year, in lots of different countries, all correlated with high covid rates. What do you think’s killing them - bizarre spate of bus accidents?

Exactly this. Look at the graphs, look at the patterns of excess deaths, based on the data recorded by thousands of individual GPs and registrars. They fit the orthodox narrative being given by Whitty and Vallance completely. They do not fit the “dying with Covid not of Covid” or “lockdowns don’t work” narrative at all.

We’ve got an effective vaccine within touching distance FFS.

@queenofknives

I'm getting to the point where I think the only way forward now is to ditch masks, forget about social distancing, ignore the lockdown and just go back to life. We can't lose all our rights and freedoms, give up the nhs and go into a devastating economic depression for a virus that kills virtually no one.

Over 1.2 million deaths worldwide is not "virtually no one".

Your ridiculous suggestion of the "only way forward" would result in many, many more than that and overwhelm healthcare services.

Lots of people would die and many many more would fill hospital beds and much of that suffering is totally avoidable with vaccines on the horizon. You would happily see huge numbers of avoidable deaths and illness just so that you don't have to wear a mask or social distance?

www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/
The Great Barrington Declaration. What a crock of shit:

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/09/herd-immunity-letter-signed-fake-experts-dr-johnny-bananas-covid

www.vox.com/science-and-health/21517702/great-barrington-declaration-john-snow-memorandum-explained-herd-immunity

www.bloomberg.com/opinion/articles/2020-10-15/great-barrington-declaration-is-wrong-about-herd-immunity

www.medpagetoday.com/infectiousdisease/covid19/89204

How many more times does it need to be explained why this isn't possible

Once would be good. I mean, those who are vulnerable would also be vulnerable to flu (no, I'm not saying it's the same thing) so how do we protect those people from getting flu? We do have some knowledge about how to protect people, is what I'm saying. I would have no problem wearing a mask or ppe around such a vulnerable person. I have friends with serious illnesses who I don't visit if I have a cold, and who are always more careful about physical contact. We do have some experience with infectious diseases and I don't think a middle way is beyond our wits. We can't make it entirely risk-free for vulnerable people (or anyone) but I think we could reduce the risks without everyone having to sacrifice so much.

Thank you @echt

Oh please, the same conversation over and over again OP. If you can't see CV as a problem with Northern England hospitals becoming over run with people with breathing difficulty, then you're deluding yourself.

The Declaration, so many threads debunking this (Spoiler - those DRs are not Drs, or are Drs in non medical or non related subjects, some names are completely fake)

Have a long hard look at what is actually happening, rather than searching the net for the few people who support your illogical assumptions.