This scientist thinks we have got everything very, very wrong

[queenofknives]

I mean, he's pretty convincing so far tbh. Anyone else watching?

Seriously @HumanFemale1. Look at the graph (based on the same ONS weekly death stats that I always use). What do you think those people died of? Random outbreak of coincidental flu? Killer bees?

I really don't know why I waste my time reading these threads!

No matter how many facts are thrown at the Op they just continue to churn out nonesense!

Do you not think that if this Govt could get away with just letting it rip through the population and shielding a few old and vulnerable people then that is exactly what they would do!
They are hardly the most compassionate of Govt's are they!

Do you think they would be locking us down, paying out billions in furlough payments if there was an alternative, infact both times they've tried to delay locking us down which has resulted in us being the first Country in Europe to reach 50,000 deaths!

Of course not. I am vulnerable myself. Why would I be happy to inflict a horrible illness on anyone at all? I'm not a psychopath.

Ahem. I did not accuse you of wanting to inflict COVID on anyone. I was responding to a post about the unpleasant effects of lockdown on the human psyche. That's why I included a quote from it.

It's pathological wishful thinking. Understandable but sadly misguided. Like the Great Barrington Farrago.

If we only taught science properly in schools.

Oh, just noticed MadridSun was the poster who called Independent Sage a "far left political pressure group". I need no longer engage with this goady fuckery. Carry on everyone. Let me know when I get to stay indoors on full pay till Spring, it'll be great, just don't forget to feed me.

This thread is so depressing. I feel really at my wits end with it all.

OP if we do as you say "ditch masks, forget about social distancing, ignore the lockdown and just go back to life" then the death rate will rocket. The death rate is really high even with those measures. Over 500 people died, just today.

The NHS won't cope. Your suggestion will wreck the NHS, not protect it.

We're in touching distance of some solutions.

The mass testing pilot in Liverpool will be the start of being able to evaluate if mass testing can get us back to some sort of normality.

The vaccine is looking really close.

Please just hang on in there, stick with the measures to control it and hope that the scientists can get us out of this pretty soon.

Agree with you OP. Heart disease and dementia are still the biggest killers.

OP I agree lockdowns are cruel and vile, and cannot keep happening BUT with the good news about the vaccine I think we can hold the line a little longer. If there were no vaccine on the horizon, or it were to be significantly delayed, we would have to have a think. However just ending social distancing wouldn’t work. I think if loads of people caught covid at once, and people ringing ambulances (for any reason) were told tough shit no one can come to help you, it would lead to mass panic. I hate lockdown but that really wouldn’t be good.

This fascinates me. What has happened to you that you think that this is forever?

I very much hope it's not forever. Even as it stands, we are doing incalculable damage to the economy, jobs, relationships, education etc. Even if it ends tomorrow, we are going to paying for this for a long long time. Our kids are going to be paying for it for a long time. I don't think that's okay.

I wouldn't call myself a pessimist, but I am quite cynical about the government and their ability to make good, evidence based decisions. It's funny to me that people trust the government so much on this one issue. I suppose it's a case of you kind of have to, otherwise you end up in a situation like mine, where people insinuate that you're a bit mental because you have a different opinion about how things are.

I think a lot of people actually are quite happy with lockdown - not much has changed if you're a reasonably well off, middle class person with a nice house and garden. Maybe you get to spend more time at home with your loved ones. But for a lot of people it is already affecting their lives, plans, goals, relationships and so on. Many people have lost their jobs. Sainsbury's recently announced 3,500 job losses - and that's a business you would think would be more robust than most. It is very frightening, and I can only assume that people who aren't worried about it are wealthy or otherwise insulated from normal life.

Thank you for your offer of armchair psychotherapy. I certainly do have my issues, like everyone else, but I'll pass up your offer. Trying to undermine someone by insinuating that there's something mentally wrong with them is kind of a manipulative tactic (some would call it gaslighting) and I wouldn't want to confide in anyone who would do that.

You haven't lost your rights or your freedoms

As much as i believe covid is a real and horrible illness how can you say we havent lost our right or freedoms?!

Its ILLEGAL to see your own family if you dont live with them. If you work anywhere non essential you are not allowed to work by law until they say you can.

In wales they banned you from being allowed to buy certain items in a supermarket.

You cannot leave your country at all right now.

You cannot meet or go into peoples houses.

You can get a 10k fine.

You have to have your face covered to buy food or use the train.

How can you say peoples freedoms have not been removed. What planet is everyone on thinking its ok that the government can make it illegal for you tonsee your family and the gov decide what you can and cannot buy.

Over 1.2 million deaths worldwide is not "virtually no one".

When you look at it as a percentage of the world population, it's a tiny number.

@beamends we may be an island but our population is way bigger than new zealand , the virus was here in thousands before we even knew , we were never in a position to eradicate it like new zealand .
Japan not sure why numbers are low but don't think they shut borders etc and apparently don't do loads of testing

@Anniegetyourgun

Of course not. I am vulnerable myself. Why would I be happy to inflict a horrible illness on anyone at all? I'm not a psychopath.

Ahem. I did not accuse you of wanting to inflict COVID on anyone. I was responding to a post about the unpleasant effects of lockdown on the human psyche. That's why I included a quote from it.

Apologies I misread your post. I've tried to respond to comments as much as I can, but there's a lot. However, my point stands - I'm not happy to inflict suffering on anyone. That's kind of what's driving my thinking at the moment - people are really suffering and I want it to stop.

@beamends also
Japan not had a strict lockdown either , so who knows why there numbers are low , hopefully scientists are looking at why some countries have lower cases than others

I didn't think the lockdowns etc were ever really about the deaths. All the guidelines are to prevent the spread of the virus enough for the health system to manage.

@Ginogineli

Obviously some people died sooner I’m not dismissing all deaths but certainly not as bad as it’s made out

My nhs friends say no one under 70 who’s healthy should give it second thought

Very strange. My NHS friends say the exact opposite.

@queenofknives

I'm getting to the point where I think the only way forward now is to ditch masks, forget about social distancing, ignore the lockdown and just go back to life. We can't lose all our rights and freedoms, give up the nhs and go into a devastating economic depression for a virus that kills virtually no one.

My friend, 51 with no underlying health conditions, died of Covid. Nothing else. Just COVID.

How fucking dare you refer to her as ‘virtually no one’. When you come on here spouting your opinions can’t you at least mentally check yourself and think about ways of putting your thoughts across without being intentionally offensive to people who have lost Someone...or, as you would describe them ‘Virtually No One’.

When you look at history lockdowns have always been a huge part of controlling pandemics.

This is just the first one in modern history where we have far more of a global migration for many reasons.

Back with cholera, plagues etc they isolated towns and villages. However whole villages and towns were almost completely wiped out.

With Spanish flu we had more global movement due to the war. There is evidence that this caused spread when soldiers returned and why the second wave was far more deadly in a younger age group.

Now we have Covid. A huge global movement which spread it rapidly. But the way they have approached it isn't different as such - it's just reflective of the way the works works in 2020 compared to 1918 which was compared to 1600's (?) when we had plague,

a virus that kills virtually no one.

The people who died from Covid are not 'no one'. How fucking disrespectful.

I'm glad you haven't lost anyone OP. Some of us have.

Thank you to everyone who's commented. A lot of people are saying that I should look at the facts but the truth is that there isn't a lot to go on that isn't highly politically motivated one way or another. I agree that the anti-lockdown side is politically motivated, but so is the pro-lockdown side, and it seems like everyone has their own 'facts' to support them so how can anyone really claim to know what's going on?

Maybe my views are indeed idiotic - I've certainly been wrong about things before, and no doubt every commenter here has been wrong about something before too. So maybe I'm just wrong. But I also cannot help but be skeptical of many of the things I'm hearing in support of the government. I do not trust Boris and I think he is an incompetent buffoon. I struggle to see the current policy as being in the best interests of individuals and society as a whole. I could be wrong, and I am open to being convinced otherwise. I will continue to seek out information from different sources (thank you to people who posted links) but I have to go now. Best wishes to all.

That's an interesting video op, just watched it. Thanks for posting.

In China positive diagnosis requires symptoms. They are not randomly testing people with a PCR machine to detect tiny amounts of virus RNA.

@MacDuffsMuff

a virus that kills virtually no one.

The people who died from Covid are not 'no one'. How fucking disrespectful.

I'm glad you haven't lost anyone OP. Some of us have.

I'm very sorry to hear that you have lost loved ones.

However, that is a ridiculous misinterpretation of my words.

The callousness here is insane.

Boris is an idiot but the fact that it took him so long to see that lockdown was needed is indicative of it not being a mad Tory plot or whatever other conspiracy theory you have. The government don't want lockdown. It's the lesser of two evils.

The choice isn't between the normal lifestyle/economy and lockdown. The choice is between lockdown and a world where more people die, and even more are left with chronic conditions.

There is not a shred of integrity surrounding the Great Barrington Declaration. It's pretty much a public petition with no verification of signatories. Anyone can sign it. Anyone who uses that as any kind of 'evidence' just shows how ignorant they actually are.

There is growing evidence of some pretty devastating long term effects on survivors. Concentrating on death rate alone is, once again, extremely narrow minded and shows a lack of understanding