Do people realise that covid patients don't wear masks?

[Arundelclassrom]

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

Sorry I should add that covid patients not wearing oxygen masks do wear masks when being transferred within the hospital.

It's the same for GPs/district nurses- we're going into patients homes which if positive will be saturated with the virus, wearing only paper masks and those lovely plastic aprons that blow up in your face as soon as you leave the house- then getting back into our own cars which we then pick our kids up in.
(and we've been seeing patients face-to-face and at home throughout, no matter what the papers would have you think)

Ffp3 is only aerosol generating procedures. Staff wear surgical mask and visor. So far in our trust we have had covid patients but no staff member has caught covid from a patient when wearing the required PPE. Stop scaremongering and being outraged. No patient, once admitted to a hospital bed has to wear a mask. You can’t make someone with a breathing condition wear a mask.

And this

My dad was admitted to hospital on the 6th of October, tested negative for covid . He was put in a room on his own , he was classed as vulnerable ( in a covid free ward) . He caught covid on the 19th of October how we dont know ? Doctor and nurses only wearing masks I presume .

The truth needs to come out about the lack of correct ppe not being worn and how bad it really is in the hospital .

Thursday is my dads funeral , covid killed him

We should have each other's backs, not participate in a race to the bottom.

I absolutely agree with this. And I would have preferred this OP to have ended with the first paragraph, which I think is an important one.

And fluid resistant surgical masks aren't just "paper masks" ffs

@dazzlinghaze you only need fit testing is you’re involved in AGPs. All evidence shows surgical masks are fine outside of AGPs - same guidance as patients with flu.

Agree with others that the v last thing we should be turning is competing with other professions as to who is the most hard done by and doing each other down.

We should ALL be protected as far as possible but it is going to be the case that certain key workers are going to be more at risk than others and that will translate into sickness and death rates.

I think the shit will hit the fan when the first teacher dies from Covid and we surely aren't far from that happening.

As a few others posters have confirmed your Trust is lacking. What you've described is certainly not what happens in mine.

I am GP and we visit patients at home with covid wearing a plastic apron/gloves and basic surgical mask.

@m0therofdragons That's interesting. God knows why my boss was trained to do fit testing then because I'm a domestic so it's definitely not something we deal with! I know she had fitted a handful of our staff back in Februaryish. What a waste of money that was then!

@natsel84 Sorry to hear of your loss. This whole situation is so shit.

Agree I don't want this to be a race to the bottom. It's shit for all of us who still have to keep working. I'm just really fed up of being told my job is "not as risky" as it is for teachers because I "have full ppe". I agree it's shit for teachers too, and I think it's awful and scary for everyone.

Please don't forget how scared and exposed we doctors, nurses, carers, ahps etc are too.

I didn't know that nurses working with confirmed covid cases don't have the proper FFP3 masks that give decent protection. That is actually scandalous. Thank you so much for what you are doing. If there are any campaigns/petitions we can get involved with to support staff please let us know.

In the meantime, it's clear that we all need to do as much as we can to reduce the spread of this awful virus.

Ffsnosexallowed NHS workers do catch covid off patients, several in my ward caught it after looking after covid positive patients, it’s not scare mongering. the masks offer some protection but there are usually quite big gaps around the sides.

@dazzlinghaze

I remember at the start of the year when we were starting to hear about Covid there was talk about us all being fit tested for masks (they didn't say it was for Covid but looking back I assume that's what it was meant to be for) and my boss was being trained to do the fit testing for us. By the time we reached March we were being told that a surgical mask was sufficient protection and we wouldn't be needing the fit tested masks.

The initial recommendation by WHO and PHE back in March was for healthcare staff to wear FFp3/N95, hence, the fit-testing. However, WHO and PHE downgraded this to FR surgical masks because there were not enough supplies FFp3 masks available worldwide. There still isn't and should WHO change their recommendation, they know the developed world would outbid the developing world for these masks.

@Ffsnosexallowed

And fluid resistant surgical masks aren't just "paper masks" ffs

I think people are using lay terms specifically because people have assumed something vastly differently is going on 🙄

Not to mention as, PP have said, FFp3 are far more expensive.

@Natsel84

My dad was admitted to hospital on the 6th of October, tested negative for covid . He was put in a room on his own , he was classed as vulnerable ( in a covid free ward) . He caught covid on the 19th of October how we dont know ? Doctor and nurses only wearing masks I presume .

The truth needs to come out about the lack of correct ppe not being worn and how bad it really is in the hospital .

Thursday is my dads funeral , covid killed him

That's appalling, I'm so sorry

I think the shit will hit the fan when the first teacher dies from Covid and we surely aren't far from that happening.

It's already happened.

Gosh - so much misunderstanding of the level of ‘protection’ that the vast majority of NHS staff are getting from their PPE.

We’re back to plastic apron, gloves, paper mask and visor for all patients now regardless of their Covid status. The visors had been dropped for a while. The full gowns and fitted mask are only for those doing aerosol generating procedures - so nobody in our community hospital has these at all. We should be fitted for the correct FFP3 masks for when we need to perform CPR - but not one of our ward has been.....

I appreciate that other professions feel let down too, but I do feel that most of them will not be in the position of cleaning adult patients who has been incontinent (and whose faeces may well contain the virus), provide personal care and assist them to dress, or offer rehab where we may be literally as close as cuddling a patient for pronged periods in enclosed environments with limited ventilation. And then doing that again, and again for a 12 hour shift.

Well done for starting this thread op.

Patients do catch it from staff even with masks on, because the droplets can land on staff members’ hair , arms uniform etc and can be easily transferred when just wearing a plastic pinnie.

@Arundelclassrom I am the poster that people keep quoting as saying teachers jobs are riskier than nurses.

But I never said that. I said that I, personally, had had 8 hours of exposure to confirmed positive cases and felt that placed me in the very highest category of risk. I didn't say it made my job more risky and I certainly didn't say all teachers were at more risk than all nurses.

I've been on most of the teacher threads and I don't think anyone else has said anything similar, so it is definitely people misquoting me, not teachers in general saying their jobs are the most risky ever.

I do feel angry that I face this level of exposure with no protection whatsoever and I also feel angry that you are having to work with substandard PPE. I don't buy the running out argument - if there was a will in the government and if they weren't more focused on slipping money into their friend's pockets.

@stairway

Ffsnosexallowed NHS workers do catch covid off patients, several in my ward caught it after looking after covid positive patients, it’s not scare mongering. the masks offer some protection but there are usually quite big gaps around the sides.

Lots of staff infections in our trust have been traced back to patients.

you only need fit testing is you’re involved in AGPs. All evidence shows surgical masks are fine outside of AGPs - same guidance as patients with flu.

Just no. Why don't you read the thread. You honestly believe that a surgical mask is fine when in direct contact with a coughing maskless Covid positive patient? Good for you haven't had to deal with that.