Do people realise that covid patients don't wear masks?

[Arundelclassrom]

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

@ForBlueSkies

Shouldn’t all staff (including cleaners etc) working in hospitals be wearing FFP3 masks given how many studies show they’re vastly superior? If not, why not?

I would assume because they are very expensive and there aren't enough of them.

This is not new news. We weren't wearing them in the first wave or any time in between either!

I'm a nurse in an NHS dept, attached to theatre. The FFP3 is only for aerosol generated procedures, so ventilated patients, those under anaesthetic, and those having an AGP procedure, like an OGD or bronchoscopy. I thought that was standard? Looking after a covid positive patient does not warrant full PPE apparently.
So we wear normal surgical mask, and plastic apron, for everything except an AGP procedure. Then we wear full PPE for AGPs, and if we are in covid ICU.
I hate the full PPE so am happy with the paper mask and pinny option tbh.

Worth pointing out also that the 'body ppe' most of us wear on the wards are the same flimsy aprons that would be used when serving food or changing the bins i.e. offering very limited cover of our clothing

Yes, so the PPE will depend whether the virus only propagates in droplets or in aerosols. But I thought the WHO has finally changed it as airborne? I do hope I am wrong!

to all of you NHS. You are amazing indeed!

By 'full PPE' it usually means a surgical mask, goggles/visor, pinny and gloves. FFP3 etc reserved for AGP procedures/treating patients in ITU.

So it really pisses me off when a patient turns up with a mask on their chin.

Surprised that people don't know this. I work in a Scottish hospital in a ward with Covid patients and we only have paper masks, apron and gloves. Some wards I've been on have visors but not all. I feel totally unprotected when I'm in with Covid patients who are coughing and spluttering all over the place with no masks on.

Can confirm. I work in clinic and it's as follows:

Non-AGP. Level 2 PPE. Scrubs, apron, surgical mask, lightweight visor, gloves.

AGP. Level 2 PPE. Scrubs, long sleeved gown, shoe coverings, apron, FFP3, larger visor and longer gloves.

This is in line with national advice. I am surprised it is a surprise.

Thank you for raising this OP. As this thread shows, it isn't widely known at all.

I’m a not in healthcare and this has come as a surprise. What do you mean by masks you wear? The flimsy blue and white ones??

I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

Oh, you mean teachers?

I never thought those working in a hospital were safe, but I imagined that you got better masks than the flimsy paper ones when you were dealing directly with patients who had tested positive.

@Hmmph

I’m a not in healthcare and this has come as a surprise. What do you mean by masks you wear? The flimsy blue and white ones??

Yep - the 20p flimsy things you can buy in the chemist.

www.nursingtimes.net/news/hospital/covid-19-risk-in-hospitals-lowest-among-intensive-care-staff-15-09-2020/

Relevant article from the nursing times

@HostaFireAndIce

I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

Oh, you mean teachers?

To be fair, teachers and TAs are in an enclosed spaces with, likely, asymptomatic (and multiple) covid cases so at least we HCPs have the wonderful surgical masks to keep us safe unlike teaching staff.

Worse than that. Due to supply issues (i.e. they're being sold for much more money on amazon) we can no longer get the blue and white ones. The replacement have sort of punched out paper ear loops, a really shoddy nosepiece and are much less comfortable. We can't order from amazon - only through NHS supplies and similar.

Surely teachers could wear the cheap surgical masks in class if they really wanted to, surely they couldn’t be sacked for that.

@stairway

Surely teachers could wear the cheap surgical masks in class if they really wanted to, surely they couldn’t be sacked for that.

They aren't allowed to wear masks, from what I understand. The wonderful govt has left maskwearing in schools up to the local LAs and the schools themselves so schools can't enforce maskwearing and they get the flack from the parents/students who don't support it.

@Motorina

Worse than that. Due to supply issues (i.e. they're being sold for much more money on amazon) we can no longer get the blue and white ones. The replacement have sort of punched out paper ear loops, a really shoddy nosepiece and are much less comfortable. We can't order from amazon - only through NHS supplies and similar.

Woah. That’s terrible. Do you have a picture? (From Internet, don’t out yourself). I’m sadly not a journalist, I’m just nosey/shocked.

What would you wear if you wanted to protect yourself completely? My DH is due to go into that sort of environment soon and I want to buy him something online but not sure what to look for (I have in mind a full gas mask or space helmet, but not sure that’s really practical for a 12hr shift). What would you go for?

Teachers should have masks (and screens in secondary) but those working with the Covid positive should have better masks.

It should be a race to the top not the bottom!

Can confirm. Worked with confirmed COVID patients with only with surgical masks and those sandwich-maker aprons. It was ridiculous when the poor patients were unwell and coughing in their room all the time. Wasn't surprised when I caught it myself a few weeks later. Was out of action for many months. Many many of us working there caught it. Talking about it, infection control blamed us for having not followed the guidance properly. I still get worked up thinking about that time.
My colleagues in less developed countries do not sit in a clean clinic without ffp3 masks.
Our unions are useless.

@sandmason, if your DH is employed by the trust, he'll have to wear masks outlined by trust/PHE policy. He won't get a choice is this, I don't think.
If he is going as a patient, get him some ffp3/N95 masks.

I'm really cross with the attitude at my work. I decided against shielding as I work on a clan ward. Came back after sick leave to find we had to Covid positive patients parked on the middle of the bay. Allegedly they couldn't be nursed elsewhere. Rubbish.
I still managed to catch it despite always wearing PPE.

I'm sorry. I thought that health care staff working with Covid positive patients would be wearing FFP3 and I think it's absolutely disgusting that you are not. This is exactly the kind of thing that the government should have been spending their time and money procuring. You are right that I have been comparing teachers with no PPE and multiple positive students as being a comparable level of risk to nurses in full PPE on the wards. Now that I know that you are in a flimsy medical mask, I will stop doing that. I don't think it's surprising that we don't know - as with schools, there seems to be a lack of media interest in what is actually going on in our hospitals.

Thank you all for the work you do and I hope you and your colleagues stay safe over the winter.

My student also got it.