Do people realise that covid patients don't wear masks?

[Arundelclassrom]

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

I'm a mental health nurse. We must wear a surgical mask and eye protection at all times (to exempt is from test and trace).

All qualified staff got fitted for an ffp3 which lives in the crash bag in case we have to do CPR... no idea why the HCAs weren't fitted either, and there's only one mask per bag so basically only one of us is protected.

I won't go into what happens when we get a new admission who has to quarantine for 2 weeks.... I'm sure people can use their imagination with how well that one goes.

@SandMason

What would you wear if you wanted to protect yourself completely? My DH is due to go into that sort of environment soon and I want to buy him something online but not sure what to look for (I have in mind a full gas mask or space helmet, but not sure that’s really practical for a 12hr shift). What would you go for?

If he's working then no point buying anything. We are not allowed to wear anything that isn't trust approved.

@Lifeisabeach09 it’s a private nursing home (but not well off and quite frankly cheap when it comes to their staff). I think he could wear whatever he wanted if we bought it. So what would you wear if you had a choice?

My gran died this morning of covid. I got the same ppe on the ward as the nurses - a bog standard throwaway mask, visor, plastic pinny and gloves. Was so shocked that this is all the staff get. And yes she had no mask on just oxygen going into her nose. The nurses were just amazing with her and I honestly couldn't praise them enough- can't think of a more difficult, tiring, heart breaking and terrifying job

@SeverusSnape1

Of course I realise this, is this actually news to people?

I haven't seen anyone on mumsnet claim that your job is not risky op, maybe I missed it. if they have, what an incredibly dumb thing to say..

We’ve had teachers claiming that their job is more risky.

You are right that I have been comparing teachers with no PPE and multiple positive students as being a comparable level of risk to nurses in full PPE on the wards.

It is comparable. The only differences are HCPs wear flimsy, ineffective masks and usually know pretty quickly if a patient is suspected/confirmed covid whereas school staff do not. Both are equally risky, IMO.

Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you?

Not that I disagree with the essence of your thread, but numerous studies have shown that masks offer some protection to the wearer too. It works both ways.

@Umbridge34 that’s shocking you aren’t even allowed to buy your own we aren’t in the U.K. so not subject to that particular variety of nonsense

I don't think teaching is more risky but I wonder if people realise that there are no masks, for students or staff in classrooms. Obviously some will have the virus and may or may not be symptomatic.

I'm totally shocked about this. It's beyond belief that people working with confirmed cases - especially with symptoms! - wear what I do on my mouth and nose in the supermarket.

Surely it can't be cheaper to lose staff for months than to invest in buying (or producing!) proper protection?

This is a thread I'd like the DM to get hold of - and that's not something I'd normally say.

[quote SandMason]@Umbridge34 that’s shocking you aren’t even allowed to buy your own we aren’t in the U.K. so not subject to that particular variety of nonsense[/quote]
To be fair I see why they enforce this. Its not outside of the realms of possibility that some unscrupulous person would be out there selling ffp3 masks and other protection that doesn't actually meet the standards.
We've also had lots of agency staff coming in wearing cloth masks as they're more comfortable so by enforcing a "you must wear what we provide" rule it prevents things like that happening

We’ve had teachers claiming that their job is more risky.

I can't say I spend a lot of time wading through all the teaching threads at the moment because that would be a full time job, but the ones I have seen tend to go more like this:
Teacher: We are being put in an unacceptably risky position, crammed into rooms with 30 children, no social distancing and no PPE.
Some non-teacher: Stop whining, loads of people have to work in those exact conditions, like supermarket workers.
Teacher: But most people back at work at least have some PPE and/or other measures.
I can't say I have seen a single teacher say they would rather be working on a Covid ward with insufficient PPE, but like I say, maybe I have missed it.

@SandMason

What would you wear if you wanted to protect yourself completely? My DH is due to go into that sort of environment soon and I want to buy him something online but not sure what to look for (I have in mind a full gas mask or space helmet, but not sure that’s really practical for a 12hr shift). What would you go for?

In what capacity? What is his job?

[quote SandMason]@Lifeisabeach09 it’s a private nursing home (but not well off and quite frankly cheap when it comes to their staff). I think he could wear whatever he wanted if we bought it. So what would you wear if you had a choice?[/quote]
FFp3 or N95 and just re-use as much as possible.
Good thing about nursing homes ( in England) is that residents are checked monthly and It is possible to limit interactions to less than 15 minutes unless given extensive personal care. Temperature checks twice per day. Barrier nursing (isolation) of residents and retesting if symptomatic. Nursing home staff should be tested weekly. Very different to wards.

@HostaFireAndIce

We’ve had teachers claiming that their job is more risky.

I can't say I spend a lot of time wading through all the teaching threads at the moment because that would be a full time job, but the ones I have seen tend to go more like this:
Teacher: We are being put in an unacceptably risky position, crammed into rooms with 30 children, no social distancing and no PPE.
Some non-teacher: Stop whining, loads of people have to work in those exact conditions, like supermarket workers.
Teacher: But most people back at work at least have some PPE and/or other measures.
I can't say I have seen a single teacher say they would rather be working on a Covid ward with insufficient PPE, but like I say, maybe I have missed it.

You have.

@domincgoings tbf to teachers they are not aware of what the government classes as PPE. Definitely not the superb effective protection the government claims the NHS have. Despite this, apparently if you catch covid, some trusts are blaming staff. I've been very disappointed with the way NHS staff have been treated.

@sandMason, just saw you aren't in the UK!

The nurses in my ward have the pressure sores ..open wounds on the bridge of their noses and cheek bones and bruising around their necks as evidence of the masks that they have to wear for their 12 hour shifts.
Photographic evidence of this in fact.

Changes of scrub tops on the 15 minute break that they are allowed, one in the morning, one in the afternoon due to being drenched in their own sweat.

And yes, they are in the middle of a COVID unit.
We are frightened, of getting it, watching people die in a most awful way, and frightened of taking it home. Frightened of what the next shift will bring. Frightened that there are not enough of us to be safe, frightened of the next plan as we have run out of ICU beds, run out of beds in the overflow ICU area, and are now onto nursing patients who are critically ill on a non ICU area in the hospital because... we HAVE run out of beds.

It is dire, absolutely dire. No one knows this..except us in the middle of it.

Masks are a bitch when they give you open wounds on your face.

To confirm, teachers and students have no protective equipment: no masks, no PPE, nothing, nada, zero in classrooms. Current experts think that teens, certainly 16+ are transmitting at the same rate as adults.

As a teacher myself, I have no doubt that I would not prefer to be a nurse on a covid ward. While @dominicgoings should feel free to link to these threads where teachers claim that their job is more risky than nursing on a covid ward, I would say that I absolutely do not feel that that is the case. That is not to say that I believe that more shouldn't be being done to put measures in place to protect staff in schools.

@HostaFireAndIce No, you really haven't.

What you've missed is me saying that given I personally spent 8 hours of the last two weeks within 2m of students who turned out to be positive at the time of my exposure, all without a mask, that I felt my risk was comparable to pretty much any other job out there.

I've since admitted that I thought that nurses on Covid wards wore FFP3 and that since they don't, I won't make that comparison again.

However, I stand by the fact that I have received an unacceptable level of exposure. I now add to this that all nurses should have access to FFP3 masks, and more, that we need to bloody start making them in female sizes immediately. It's not rocket surgery to make the damned things in multiple sizes. I'll support any petition to make this happen.

We should have each other's backs, not participate in a race to the bottom.

Ffp3 is only aerosol generating procedures. Staff wear surgical mask and visor. So far in our trust we have had covid patients but no staff member has caught covid from a patient when wearing the required PPE. Stop scaremongering and being outraged. No patient, once admitted to a hospital bed has to wear a mask. You can’t make someone with a breathing condition wear a mask.

@Arundelclassrom

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

And you do realise that the ONS statistics of covid death rates by occupations showed that doctors and nurses had no higher death rates than the general population with the unsung heroes in public transport, construction, retail and carers taking the hit in terms of death rates?

Apologies if it's been said, if all staff wore ffp3 masks for all covid positive patients we'd run out of masks in about a fortnight I'd guess ( totally made up figure). FRSMs do protect the wearer from droplets. But aren't as protective as ffp3.

I remember at the start of the year when we were starting to hear about Covid there was talk about us all being fit tested for masks (they didn't say it was for Covid but looking back I assume that's what it was meant to be for) and my boss was being trained to do the fit testing for us. By the time we reached March we were being told that a surgical mask was sufficient protection and we wouldn't be needing the fit tested masks.