Do people realise that covid patients don't wear masks?

[Arundelclassrom]

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

@Haenow

I have to admit, I didn’t realise how bad it was for healthcare professionals and I’m shocked. Of course it’s totally incomparable to teaching and it’s offensive to suggest otherwise. That’s not to say there isn’t big risks in schools but it’s not the same. It’s not a race to the bottom.

But you and many posters on multiple threads on here are making it a race to the bottom by constantly belittling teachers concerns.

As a pp mentioned, the number of cases in children is rising rapidly - showing that transmission is rife in schools. So for many teachers (including those that are CEV) that means multiple exposures to infectious children. With NO PPE, NO distancing and NO other protective measures.

If children are asymptomatic, they may be in class all week whilst having covid. That's a high viral load for teachers to deal with. Teachers get up close to pupils all day and those that teach younger and SEND children are frequently covered in their bodily fluids.

I can't understand @Arundelclassrom why you had to compare your situation to that of teachers. Just telling us about your own experience would've been enough. Many people (myself included) have huge respect for what you are all doing right now.

@Arundelclassrom

"Medical staff working with known Covid patients do have PPE to properly protect them from others though? It's only the face coverings required for shopping etc that don't"

No we don't! I'm really impressed at the propaganda that makes people think we do. We get a basic surgical mask which does not protect us from the covid being breathed out by our actual covid patients. We are not protected in any way. Staff in Icu get full ppe. Staff on general medical wards do not. This is reflected in infection rates - ICU staff low infections, gen med staff v high

That is bloody scandalous.

@Nellodee I thank you for your apology and that you won't compare our situations again.

I felt really insulted by your original post. I understand that when you made the comparison you didn't understand what "ppe" was. I'm not insulted by what you are saying now. But when I read that, yes I felt personally insulted, that someone could compare these two risks. That's why I made this thread - I assumed there was no way you could really understand the risks we face every day.

I hate that we are being pitted against each other! This is awful for everyone. I just really don't appreciate being told it's "fine for NHS staff as you have ppe". It's so incredibly rude and such a basic interpretation of the situation.

Govt has had since March/April to sort this and have SFA.

Adult social care is done almost exclusively by agency staff on min or living wage and many on ZHC plus have cars to run.

So no, many won't isolate, how can they afford too, the £500 isn't even in place yet and its no where nr enough.

Please don't think I'm judging. People have got to earn a living and the government is disgraceful for not putting things in place that makes self isolating an easier choice.
I was simply pointing out that agency staff reliance within the NHS could potentially be increasing the risk of spread.

And as an aside, I can only speak for the NHS, but agency workers are more often than not earning more than the regular staff. Nurses in particular can earn a pretty penny working agency (although obviously there are fewer protections).

@Arundelclassrom

"Medical staff working with known Covid patients do have PPE to properly protect them from others though? It's only the face coverings required for shopping etc that don't"

No we don't! I'm really impressed at the propaganda that makes people think we do. We get a basic surgical mask which does not protect us from the covid being breathed out by our actual covid patients. We are not protected in any way. Staff in Icu get full ppe. Staff on general medical wards do not. This is reflected in infection rates - ICU staff low infections, gen med staff v high

I think you should all strongly demand better protection. It's really unacceptable!

@Barryisland

No because the teachers aren’t saying they are working in face to face contact with covid sufferers. You are saying you are working in face to face contact with covid sufferers. If you are aware of suitable masks which you seem to be and the employer is not providing them then buy a suitable One in the interim until employers do buy them. Consult with unions if the trust you work with are not providing what you consider to be essential ppe kit.

The Trusts won't allow individual employees to wear different masks. The Trusts are following WHO/PHE guidance on mask recommendations. As, stated above, WHO/PHE downgraded from FFp3 to FR surgical masks because of stocks and pricing but, truly, FFp3 are more effective and protect the wearer as well as the patient.

Yup, midwife here, delivering babies to women with Covid... in my surgical mask, plastic pinny and gloves. I would like to add that in the beginning of the pandemic, they stated birth was an agp purely because of the amount of fluids splashing about. But now it appears to have been taken off the agp guidance, so the bosses are no longer required to provide me with an ffp3 in order to do this...

Good, I’m glad about that, and I’m glad you made this post. I knew care workers in homes had the shitty end of the stick, but everything I’d seen on tv about hospitals had people looking like they were dressed in all the full gear. I’m disgusted to hear about all the changes they’ve made to the regulations to justify them not having to give you all the proper kit.

I think you should all strongly demand better protection. It's really unacceptable!

This 👏 and that’s the crux of it. No matter what your profession if you are expected to work in a pandemic you should at the very least expect reasonable protection.
It shouldn’t be one profession pitted against another we are all on the same page

I'm comparing it to teachers only because the comparison was made the other way round. I was told on other threads it was "fine" for.me because I have ppe. I made this thread precisely because of that comparison which came from a teacher.

Barryisland the problem with healthcare workers purchasing their own masks is because they need to be fit tested to show they work. Also there is a risk if a healthcare worker reuses a mask for multiple patients ( increased infection risk) also there is a risk of spreading other infectious illnesses as a reused mask acts as a surface. The masks costs at least £5 each which someone on a low wage wouldn’t be able to replace very often.
It would be much easier for a teacher to purchase and wear a cheap surgical mask when in class with students.

I visited a patient a week ago who had just been discharged home from hospital. He put a mask on, his wife told him to take it off, he didn't need to wear it. So I was protecting them wearing a surgical mask, but obviously as a nurse with a leaking heart valve I don't actually need protecting 🤷‍♀️. We wear the fpp3 masks for AGP. Surgical masks then for everything else. I would personally wear full PPE for covid positive patients.

@starrynight19

I think you should all strongly demand better protection. It's really unacceptable!

This 👏 and that’s the crux of it. No matter what your profession if you are expected to work in a pandemic you should at the very least expect reasonable protection.
It shouldn’t be one profession pitted against another we are all on the same page

@starrynight19

The problem is we are told by management that it is adequate protection.

It just doesn’t feel like it.

We don’t have the luxury of holding our employers to ransom to demand adequate PPE.
We can’t strike now. More people will suffer and die.
We can’t demand hospitals close and services shut down to protect us.
We can’t do any of those things right now.
All we can do is hope and pray that people will wake up to the reality of what we are facing and start adhering to the measures that are being put in place to reduce the sheer numbers of infections.
The time for questioning and analysing and blaming will be later.
But right now? We don’t have time.

Yes we've been told the same. It's adequate, but no it doesn't feel it. Although they were suggesting we wore more visors when I was last in work, but they were in short supply.

JocelynSchnitt
Its amazing that test and trace have hospitals quite low down on places to catch covid in that case. Like, really, really low down the list.

That's because staff have to put off blue tooth in hospitals/care setting so that they cannot be traced.

@JocelynSchitt

We have to turn off the app on our phones when we get to work so that this isn't picked up.

Again, I'm amazed this isn't more common knowledge!

[quote Arundelclassrom]@JocelynSchitt

We have to turn off the app on our phones when we get to work so that this isn't picked up.

Again, I'm amazed this isn't more common knowledge![/quote]
The lack of critical thinking is crazy.
Track, trace and isolate every nurse who has been in contact with Bob in Room 1. And Jim in Room 2. Brian in Room 3.....

@Dominicgoings

We don’t have the luxury of holding our employers to ransom to demand adequate PPE. We can’t strike now. More people will suffer and die. We can’t demand hospitals close and services shut down to protect us. We can’t do any of those things right now. All we can do is hope and pray that people will wake up to the reality of what we are facing and start adhering to the measures that are being put in place to reduce the sheer numbers of infections. The time for questioning and analysing and blaming will be later. But right now? We don’t have time.

An online petition? A letter to Downing Street? Management can't really think it's adequate or the ICU staff would have the same level of protection. It's also putting other hospital staff and patients, your families and anyone else you come into contact with at risk unless you never come into contact with anyone else.

Staffy1 the reality is there still isn’t enough proper PPE to go round and the NHS can’t really afford supplying the amount that’s needed. That is my conclusion anyway the cost and the sheer amount needed to protect hospital and care workers properly would be astronomical.

@Staffy1 managers are under a lot of pressure to conform to their managers and the people high at the top. They are aware it’s not good enough but I suppose they don’t want to be the one to go against the grain (they can’t really can they) it would look bad.

The only way most of the time you would wear full PPE is it a patient was on a C-app machine and ICU their patients will be most likely ventilated so that’s the reason for difference in PPE for compared to other wards.

I hadn't realised this and think it's appalling you only have lip service PPE.

I think it’s a disgrace that NHS staff are told to not use the track and trace app. I’m a midwife, we wear PPE yes, however at lunch break we have to all sit together in a staff room that isn’t even 2m square and of course masks have to be removed to eat. So if a colleague then developed Covid all those staff members are at risk, but won’t be told to isolate as track and trace doesn’t apply to us.

@ShinyGreenElephant @Natsel84

@Newfosterer

I think it’s a disgrace that NHS staff are told to not use the track and trace app. I’m a midwife, we wear PPE yes, however at lunch break we have to all sit together in a staff room that isn’t even 2m square and of course masks have to be removed to eat. So if a colleague then developed Covid all those staff members are at risk, but won’t be told to isolate as track and trace doesn’t apply to us.

Same in the care home I work in. If a staff member tests positive, nobody knows if they have worked with that person. A few weeks ago we had one and we were only told we had a positive case and we wouldn't know if we had worked with that person as we have ppe( masks) our changing room is tiny, also people sit together to eat...we will hear however if a resident tests positive. To be honest we cannot lose staff to isolation, so that's why they wont say, we are constantly looking for more staff, we are always short. At the moment we have a lot of Romanians who are working hours and hours a week, double shifts etc...my friend tested positive last week who works with me, but nobody else knows and it's not my news to tell but I know there are people she has worked with closely who have no idea.