Do people realise that covid patients don't wear masks?

[Arundelclassrom]

Just interested to hear if people know this. I see a lot on these threads that people think it's "ok for doctors and nurses because they have effective ppe". Do you realise that masks do not protect you, they protect others from you? Do you realise covid patients who are struggling to breathe do not wear masks? Do you realise they are coughing all over us as we provide care?

I'm not saying this to complain - this is my job and I do it willingly because I care. I'm just getting really frustrated seeing people who apparently think there is no risk involved in my job, and that theirs is somehow more risky than a job where we are in an enclosed space with actual confirmed covid patients...

@Lucymumofson

Sorry where do you work? I work in a large acute hospital with wards full of confirmed covid patients. No member of staff is allowed near a covid positive patient without full head to toe PPE, not a surgical mask on its own. Any patients on the covid step down ward (ten days plus asymptomatic) - then the staff are wearing amber PPE (ffp surgical mask, glasses/visor, aprons and gloves). For the rest of the hospital is gloves aprons and surgical mask...

Seriously? Every covid patient on every ward and you have full PPE with FFP3??? Where do you work?!!!! I'm getting a job there.

I treat unmasked covid patients in a paper mask and a plastic pinny same as every other patient 🤷‍♀️

The guidance is still for fluid-resistant surgical masks. FFp3 for AGP. Section 10.2

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/910885/COVID-19_Infection_prevention_and_control_guidance_FINAL_PDF_20082020.pdf

Yes thank you for making this point OP. Not to mention that when we are in places when we are expected to wear full ppe, many of us fail the fit tests for the masked, because they are designed for a male face.

But on most wards all we wear is that standard surgical masks. The same ones you buy in shops. You know, the ones that protect others but not you. What a surprise that so many NHS staff have caught Covid and that so many have died.

Op your hospital trust sounds unique in its failing of its staff

The lack of knowledge is crazy, we have positive children on our ward and we get a surgical mask and a visor that's it unless you are ventilated or carrying out suction. I've had a very cute toddler sitting on my lap having medication who pulled my mask down and gave me a kiss.

ITU and A&E staff have FFP3 masks but when my mask was fitted the guy said it has a bit of a leak when you move your head up and down so just dont do that!! A lot of people where I work feel safer in hoods but they are heavy and bulky and is cleaned by the last person to use it and not everyone does it properly

The only reason we wear paper masks in hospital is because we can't be 2M away from each other, no inpatient wears them to protect us.

Yes, FFP3 is only meant to be for AGPs. So if you are in ICU, the whole environment is an AGP (trache and vent going etc) and you would wear them all the time but the covid wards aren't so paper mask it is.

I treat unmasked covid patients in a paper mask and a plastic pinny same as every other patient 🤷‍♀️

Same. This is the NHS standard on most general medical wards. Where most of the Covid patients are.

@Iminaglasscaseofemotion

Serious question, why do you have to wear masks then? If they don't protect you, and the people you care for are already infected, whats the point?

To give the illusion that the organisation and the State give a shit.

Besides, surgical masks are worn with all patients, not just covid, and there is some evidence that they will protect a patient from the wearer.

I'm really shocked that people don't know this already. Not being toast, just genuinely shocked as it's been going on since March. More covid in hospital the more risk we are at and so is everyone else that comes in to hospitals.

But arent you told not to have the app, on the basis that you have full ppe? But...you dont have full ppe? So, is this how covid is spreading in hospitals?

I'm sure we know the answer but does Matt Hancock know? What are unions doing? Why are the only images of UK hospitals during the UK pandemic of fully suited and booted staff? That's extremely misleading.

Of course I realise this, is this actually news to people?

I haven't seen anyone on mumsnet claim that your job is not risky op, maybe I missed it. if they have, what an incredibly dumb thing to say..

I would imagine most covid patients are at home or, if seriously ill, in hospital with breathing difficulties in which case they wouldn't wear masks.

I think people see the footage of Critical care and assume that’s how everyone works.

It’s not and most of us are in aprons and surgical masks with eye protection and gloves for every patient now. Including medical covid positive/suspected patients not on AGP.

The lack of proper PPE for medical staff and care staff in this country is an absolute disgrace. FFP3 masks, eye protection etc aren’t perfect but they are protective.

I’ve seen many pics of TESTING staff is basic surgical masks, gloves, and that’s it. Crazy.

@PicsInRed

But arent you told not to have the app, on the basis that you have full ppe? But...you dont have full ppe? So, is this how covid is spreading in hospitals?

I'm sure we know the answer but does Matt Hancock know? What are unions doing? Why are the only images of UK hospitals during the UK pandemic of fully suited and booted staff? That's extremely misleading.

What we wear is 'PPE' - paper mask, gloves, plastic apron - in the eyes of the government and the app. It just isn't full PPE in the sense of head to toe barrier that you put on for AGPs. Majority of covid patients aren't having an AGP done to them so it's standard PPE.

Surgical mask, plastic aprons and gloves is standard. As others have said, ffp3 is for aerosol generating procedures (ie. Bipap ventilation, cpr) only. As recommended by public health England and the WHO, so definitely not just one trust being dodgy.

Its inadequate of course and yet apparently enough that if we test positive our colleagues are exempt from test and trace because we're all protected

Surely no one is stupid enough to think that nurse, doctors, other medical professionals dealing with Covid patients aren’t at risk just because they wear a mask. I would have thought it’s highly likely that these people will catch it, regardless of the masks. You do an amazing job OP.

On the teaching threads they seem to think nhs staff are better protected but it isn’t true. We usually only have the paper masks which a teacher could wear if they insisted/ wanted to. Yes they might be in a room with 30 people and there is the off chance one might be an asymptomatic carrier but its hardly as bad as giving personal care to a patient covid positive and symptomatic.

But arent you told not to have the app, on the basis that you have full ppe? But...you dont have ppe?

Because a 3 layer surgical mask is considered full PPE. Alongside a plastic pinny and eye protection.

FFP3 masks are for aerosol generating procedures. I wear one in theatres during intubation and extubation, ITU staff wear them as do places like endoscopy where they perform AGPs as standard.

Any trust that uses them any more widespread than this is going above and beyond the basic guidelines provided by PHE. They're the exceptions

Well yes - but appropriate PPE?

A mask which doesn't protect the wearer from covid clearly isn't appropriate protection for a health carer treating a covid patient.

@Lucymumofson

Sorry where do you work? I work in a large acute hospital with wards full of confirmed covid patients. No member of staff is allowed near a covid positive patient without full head to toe PPE, not a surgical mask on its own. Any patients on the covid step down ward (ten days plus asymptomatic) - then the staff are wearing amber PPE (ffp surgical mask, glasses/visor, aprons and gloves). For the rest of the hospital is gloves aprons and surgical mask...

Same.

Shouldn’t all staff (including cleaners etc) working in hospitals be wearing FFP3 masks given how many studies show they’re vastly superior? If not, why not?

The ppe is shit, my wife has been working with covid patients for 2 months now, she wears all the shit ppe and has caught it

Yes I was thinking about this randomly the other night. A few friends work in ICU on a covid ward and they haven’t got it. Made me think the right PPE really must work.

Also the wearer does get some protection from a mask.

Large teaching hospital, working in A&E.

Surgical mask, long sleeved apron, gloves and visor/goggles for every patient, including those who are suspected Covid or known Covid +. Only using level 3 PPE for aerosol generating procedures.