Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

Fight when you vote people. Fight by electing better and demanding better of those you elect. Fight by not buying into a system that allows people to go without basic needs. Fight against a media that assumes you would rather be entertained than informed. Fight against a government who thinks you don't care and have no values beyond the wish for Christmas.

Ffs. Do not protest a small period of collective action that is necessary to help other people.

Ridiculous what will your sign say I don’t want your hospital bed

I'm fighting back. I will continue to see people in my friendship group. I live somewhere that has few cases and mix with a group of friends and relatives who I'm not going to catch the virus from because they are careful mask wearing people, and because several of them are medical personnel who had the virus already. I'm not prepared to live any more circumspectly than I already do.

@GalesThisMorning

Fight when you vote people. Fight by electing better and demanding better of those you elect. Fight by not buying into a system that allows people to go without basic needs. Fight against a media that assumes you would rather be entertained than informed. Fight against a government who thinks you don't care and have no values beyond the wish for Christmas.

Ffs. Do not protest a small period of collective action that is necessary to help other people.

All of this. If MN still had Quote of the Week (when did that stop?), this should be it.

@m0therofdragons

Okay, I really need a mn break. I can’t deal with the level of idiocy. It’s not just about you dying it’s about putting doctors in a position where they would have to play God and choose who gets a ventilator and who doesn’t, then they have to live with that trauma. No doctor wants to make that call ever. So fighting back actually means behaving like a self absorbed selfish prick.

This.

It’s four weeks.

You really think it'll only be four weeks?

I so get where you are coming from. I'm much less worried about the virus than I am about Saint Boris and his merry men turning everything into an Orwellian dystopia, for long after the pandemic is over; that is what we must fight against. We might not be able to fight the virus, but we CAN fight against long-term oppressive government, and it is our duty to do so.

I agree with you, in many ways, OP: it is frightening how easily the public believed every word of bilge from Saint Boris's unmasked mouth, all the lies and spin, especially "we can turn this virus around in twelve weeks"; and the U-turn "masks are useless; oops, I meant compulsory", and handed over their rights just like that.

Even I think there's not much we can do about the short term. But what we can do is make every effort to make FUTURE governments aware that if the same happens again, it's going to be much harder to ride roughshod over the taxpaying public this time. Here are things we can think about:

1. If he's late ending tier 4, and starts pleading "just another week/month/year": then is the time to break some roolz, especially if businesses have made their plans to reopen, and he U-turns the night before. We the public have to make it clear that we expect to be back to where we are now on 2nd Dec (and preferably with fewer restrictions), and not one day later, and that we don't expect "I know I said twelve weeks, I was lying" that we had earlier this year. We need to be shouting "we expect you to end restrictions when you say you will".

1. I expect some people will be paying their taxes one minute before midnight on 31st January, or forming a socially distanced queue to pay them in pennies. The government needs to remember that we pay their wages.

1. We had "eat out to help out": Saint Boris is bound to then put on a Santa hat and tell us "spend, spend, spend to save the shops, after I destroyed them". Not doing so would be one way to show our ire, citing that we can't, because we don't know if we'll have an income next year, especially as we were blamed for infections by eating out to help out. We need to state publicly WHY we're not spending.

1. Keeping the emergency laws in place by stealth, after things settle down: we need to be extremely observant about this. That is a battle we can, and must, fight. Whoever replaces Boris will think we've forgotten about them: we must show that we have not.

1. When an election finally does come round, we must grill the candidates to the hilt about their future pandemic planning. Are they going to totally destroy the country because of too many people coughing, like Boris did? Are they going to close the expensive Nightingale hospitals by stealth? After promising a new era for the NHS (bingo card ready), are they going to run it into the ground again?

1. We need to do something about the sensationalist media that is a staple of this country. One reason that I (and no doubt many others) refused to take the virus seriously at first is because for years, we're always being told that disaster is just round the corner: the Millennium bug, your mobile phone is killing you, there are weapons of mass destruction, there are paedophiles, terrorists, immigrants everywhere, to say nothing of climate change. A huge "crying wolf" effect has been built up over the years, and the public blindly believes it every time. If we could somehow fight this (e.g. by not buying papers) it could be one positive thing. Having said that, the media is much more powerful than the government, and they will do whatever it takes to sell papers; it might be an impossible battle.

1. The legal challenges against the government will probably go quiet for a little while, but in January, they are likely to crank up their efforts. Supporting them publicly as much as we can would be one thing. Even though the government will resist them as much as they can, and judges will no doubt be bribed by the government, it might make future governments think before oppressing the public.

1. We need to resist the government's efforts to pit sections of the public against each other: it's been their main strategy. We need to stop posting on social media about blaming people who don't wear masks; instead, we need to call the government out on this.

1. We need to make the government aware that we don't approve of their approach of "government by media": leaking things to the press first, before they tell us. This weekend was a prime example: we should have heard about the lockdown from Boris first, not from the Daily Mail.

You’re like a jaikie fighting with a tree, OP. Totally misguided about who your opponent is and also about the nature of the fight at hand.

Just you’re drunk on idiocy and divisive political rhetoric not booze.

The jaikie has a bit more sense. At least they get to get blootered.

Why don’t you just take a leaf out of the jaikie’s book and toddle off and start a fight with a tree. You’ll do a lot less harm that way.

I will still be attending the protests.

I will tell you this - it’s only on MN where there is support for lockdown. The general public is becoming furious - across Europe

This is incorrect, there are still majorities for strong action to tackle Covid. What there is in every country is a noisy minority of muppets people against restrictions. About 25% of people are strongly sceptical about everything.

@BefuddledPerson

I read yesterday that eat out to help out is linked to one in five clusters, so thanks for that bright idea, glorious government

There were over 250k eat out to help outs in Newquay in Cornwall. That just one town in Cornwall. There are currently 4 people in ICU at the local county hospital.

If I have to go to work everyday and stand in huge groups of other people’s kids with no mask wearing or social distancing then you can stop socialising for a month.

Do fuck off.

@Bamboo15

Only 4 weeks. You really think that do you??

There’s a gym near me posting on their Instagram that they are going to fight back and make a stand and remain open for everyone even on Thursday next week. I don’t go to the gym at all but surely it’s only a matter of time before someone called the police about this?!

There were over 250k eat out to help outs in Newquay in Cornwall. That just one town in Cornwall. There are currently 4 people in ICU at the local county hospital.

Yes, because rates were very low in Cornwall. If rates had been low everywhere the scheme might have been a good idea.

The only people I've seen saying they are happy with lockdown, it's for our own good, you just need to bear with it etc, are all either able to work from home, can survive on furlough money, or get benefits. Not one person I know who has lost their job, leaving them unable to pay their mortgage, those who have had operations cancelled, those who have had family commit suicide - not one if them are saying "it is what it is, you just have to bear with it" etc.

Agree with PP, it's not going to be 4 weeks.

@YouJustDoYou

The only people I've seen saying they are happy with lockdown, it's for our own good, you just need to bear with it etc, are all either able to work from home, can survive on furlough money, or get benefits. Not one person I know who has lost their job, leaving them unable to pay their mortgage, those who have had operations cancelled, those who have had family commit suicide - not one if them are saying "it is what it is, you just have to bear with it" etc.

My dh has lost his job and it's badly impacted us. So maybe you just don't know everyone in the country?

I'm in favour of the lockdown, I see my dh's life is much more likely to get back on track if the government stops this treading water.

It isn't lockdown killing the economy, it is Covid really. Lockdown is a symptom of Covid.

The government needs full support to give this lockdown any chance
Protesting is ridiculous the virus won’t listen it is the real enemy not the powers in charge
Makes you wonder when you read some of the daft comments on here
Give track and trace a false number then be the first to complain it’s not working
I am still seeing my friend the Government is not controlling me - grow up

One month. For the sakes of saving lives. By just staying home. With access to food and essentials. Come on. Is it so hard?

Who are you fighting back against, and how? By all means join in the search for a vaccine. But just ignoring lockdown or any restrictions isn't an option. Would you really be sticking it to "them" when you catch Covid and then discover your local hospital is overwhelmed and can't treat you?

@Dongdingdong

No I genuinely think the government should be held to account for their mishandling of the pandemic in the UK.

Because Labour would have handled it so much better - not.

We do know that, at the very least, Labour would have gone for a circuit breaker over half term, which would have been much more useful. We can also be sure that Labour wouldn't have spent billions on Covid-related contracts for friends of Johnson and Cummings.

But that isn't the comparator, really, is it? The comparator is all those other countries with much lower death rates which isn't wasting millions on failed test and trace and similar nonsenses.

Scientists have predicted that 4000 people a day will die if we don't take action now. No, we don't fight back. We act selflessly and follow the guidelines.

I know that it is disappointing to be back in lockdown, but we follow the rules for a month, save lives, and start getting some of our freedom back by December.

Also, on average, people have 10 - 20 close family and friends who will be deeply affected by their death. It is terrible if 4000 people die a day. What is also awful is the forty thousand to eight thousand minimum amount of mourners left behind each day. You say that you have lost people you love. I am truly sorry for your losses. Do you really want that pain to be inflicted on so many others if we all start 'fighting back'?

One month. For the sakes of saving lives. By just staying home. With access to food and essentials. Come on. Is it so hard

Great for people that have a paid life after. Not great for people where "just one month" will be the final nail in the coffin of their jobs. Onto benefits they go. No jobs available. Can't pay mortgage. Loses home. And it snowballs. Its alright and fine and dandy for those who have money coming in no matter what, or who have savings. Mind you, lots of people I know on benefits actually get given more than I earn in a month, so, maybe a life on benefits will actually be more beneficial to me.

It's just one month.
It's just one month.
It's just one month.
It's just one month.
It's just one month.
It's just one month.

Did Saint Boris get this memo?
Has he sworn to it, on his grave?
Will he keep his word on it?
Just like he told us it would be "twelve weeks"?
Just like he told us it would "normalish by Christmas"?
Will he do what he says he will, for the first time ever?