Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

we know from recent medical studies on numerous blood samples; there is no long term immunity from it as antibody counts drop after infection. As a vaccine relies on the immunity factor by small amounts of the disease being given to patients to trigger an immune response, if immunity isnt a given neither is a vaccine

Thankfully this isn’t true. A vaccine is potentially able to provide better immunity than previous infection.

@Flutter12

Apart from things like pubs, sports clubs and restaurants what do people feel like they are missing out on so much that they can’t go without for a few weeks? I’m genuinely interested and not being sarcastic.

Don't you miss anything?

I'm fine, would probably be classed as a lockdown fanatic by many but I am missing my old life enormously now.

I can go without, and will, but I miss miss miss things now.

It really isn't about the 4 week lockdown, it's about the end game- what is the ultimate goal?

I don’t know what the ultimate goal is and I can get why people are frustrated over a second lockdown because chances are we could end up having a third. My opinion would have been what a lot of scientists are saying to have a short, sharp lockdown of two weeks and repeat this every few months if necessary.
I am not holding my breath for a vaccine either as even if there is one I doubt many people would want to have one when most vaccines take years to go through the different stages to check they’re safe.

Don't you miss anything?

I do miss loads of things and I’m sad that we have to have another lockdown especially so close to Xmas but I’m not devastated because I know once this is over I can do all those things again and appreciate them even more.
I have also tried to do things that I wouldn’t normally do like instead of paying loads for a gym class I go running outdoors so I will hopefully have some new hobbies after this too.
If the lockdown is extended then I will miss the Xmas feel of the shops and seeing my family but I know everyone else is in the same boat.

Fight it as in ignore it and carry on breaking SD/mask wearing/mixing in groups like a self absorbed prick

or

Fight it as in work on a vaccine to eliminate the virus as was done with smallpox

Fight what exactly - the government lock down - by going out? Marching on parliament demanding that we all get back to normal and sod the hospitals...perhaps we should just stop treating people with covid and let them die - exactly what type of 'fight it' had you in mind?

@FreshFreesias

I agree OP. But you won’t get any joy here.

@FreshFreesias .... off you pop then with @pontypridd

go fight it - do your best and let us know how you get on.

How do all the lockdown fans feel about music? Books? Art? Online galleries, concerts, Youtube recordings, CDs, audio books, tv, Netflix, theatre, ballet, films?

Imagine your lovely lockdown without those things.

Then try thinking it's a good thing. You do realise, don't you, that the people who provide your entertainment during lockdown have been unemployed and completely stuffed since March?

I know this isn't entirely relevant, but I am so frustrated with lockdowns.

@jessstan1

We need a longer lockdown than a month and rigorously enforced.

What a very weird post.

Are you proposing to have armed police out and about, shooting anyone who's buying a non-essential packet of crumpets?

@Muranoandizumi

It's because this could go on for months. There's no guarantee it will end on 2nd Dec, and it's different to the first lockdown because it's cold and wet outside.

The first lockdown was crap, too. This one is no different at all. Losing your livelihood is losing your livelihood, no matter when it happens.

I am not holding my breath for a vaccine either as even if there is one I doubt many people would want to have one when most vaccines take years to go through the different stages to check they’re safe.

Maybe this is the aim. After months of this shite even the biggest vaccine cynic will have their arm out and sleeve up begging for it no matter what it contains!

but I feel so helpless and don't know what else to do.

So do I @TimeForLunch - but it’s good to hear so many other people are feeling the same. I think this feeling will build and eventually there will be an opportunity to make our voices heard.

@ChocBeforeCock

we know from recent medical studies on numerous blood samples; there is no long term immunity from it as antibody counts drop after infection. As a vaccine relies on the immunity factor by small amounts of the disease being given to patients to trigger an immune response, if immunity isnt a given neither is a vaccine

Thankfully this isn’t true. A vaccine is potentially able to provide better immunity than previous infection.

As Trump would say " fake news" . Post evidence of this but on second thoughts the phrase " vaccine is potentially able" is very ambiguous based on hope rather than fact.

Many scientists don't believe we will ever have an effective vaccine and I agree

@TiersTiersTiers

Fight it as in ignore it and carry on breaking SD/mask wearing/mixing in groups like a self absorbed prick

or

Fight it as in work on a vaccine to eliminate the virus as was done with smallpox

Fight what exactly - the government lock down - by going out? Marching on parliament demanding that we all get back to normal and sod the hospitals...perhaps we should just stop treating people with covid and let them die - exactly what type of 'fight it' had you in mind?

The smallpox virus killed millions of healthy young people so people took the significant risks incurred with the vaccine which often had terrible side effects. Who the hell would want to take any risks with a covid vaccine for a virus that has a 1 in 67000 chance of killing anyone under 45 and even at 80 you have a 95 plus % chance of surviving it if catching covid. I wouldn't go anywhere near a covid vaccine as the risks of the vaccine outweigh the disease IMO

@dan1980

Spectacularly missed the point

@WindChimeTinkle

Well it's obvious that the OP means fight against the lockdown not the virus. I will still be seeing my family in my house. So fuck off Boris.

👆there are no words for your stupidity.

Yes your survival rate might be good BUT with complications like shredded lungs, long term damage and so on. Has the OP said exactly how they plan on fighting back or is thus just yet another person who has spent their life ignoring anyone who told them no or kicking off at them now realising that they can actually be told no?

Everyone is in the same boat
Sorry but this isn't exactly true .

I read somewhere a good way of describing it.

We may be in the same storm but some people are in large boats and barely notice the storm and others are in rubber dinghies bearing the brunt of it.

[quote mellongoose]@WindChimeTinkle

Well it's obvious that the OP means fight against the lockdown not the virus. I will still be seeing my family in my house. So fuck off Boris.

👆there are no words for your stupidity.[/quote]
This with bells on

I work in healthcare and I’ve cared for people who died in several ways. Respiratory failure ain’t great but it happens in quite a few illnesses. No way of dying is particularly rosy. We’re lucky to have morphine. I’m thinking of all the childhood leukaemia we are going to cultivate through Covid cleanliness. I’m thinking of all the suffering not accounted for in this corono-mono-mania. Because it is mono-mania. I would liken it to a phobia pushing out all other thoughts, whence you run in front of a truck because of a horrible spider. There are always, when totalitarianism begins to creep, those who hunker down and say ‘government knows best’ even as they are loaded onto cattle trucks.. If we just do what we’re told we’ll be allowed five more minutes of life. I’m with the Warsaw Uprising, sorry ‘bout that

@Waaaaa

I work in healthcare and I’ve cared for people who died in several ways. Respiratory failure ain’t great but it happens in quite a few illnesses. No way of dying is particularly rosy. We’re lucky to have morphine. I’m thinking of all the childhood leukaemia we are going to cultivate through Covid cleanliness. I’m thinking of all the suffering not accounted for in this corono-mono-mania. Because it is mono-mania. I would liken it to a phobia pushing out all other thoughts, whence you run in front of a truck because of a horrible spider. There are always, when totalitarianism begins to creep, those who hunker down and say ‘government knows best’ even as they are loaded onto cattle trucks.. If we just do what we’re told we’ll be allowed five more minutes of life. I’m with the Warsaw Uprising, sorry ‘bout that

I flatly refuse to be just another sheep. And I will not hand over my rights and comply to this ridiculousness anymore. If that makes me a bad person, then so be it.

I lost my dad to seasonal flu, even though he had the flu jab every year. He was on a ventilator for 5 days and then they told us to choose which day they'd switch it off. I watched him struggle to breathe under his own steam for a few moments before passing. The look of confusion on his face as he realised he couldn't. That will haunt me forever. So I know what the face of death looks like, and it's never pretty. Doesn't matter what illness it is.

People die. Every single day.

Cancer is slowly taking my cousin and her treatment has been stopped due to covid. Her prognosis was good before this.

Now, I see her slipping away for the sake of a virus that has been massively oversold to a terrified public trapped in the media hype.

Where the old and vulnerable are used as pawns to aid public compliance.

She is 36. She'll leave behind 4 children. And she's dying of something that had her treatment continued, she had an excellent chance of surviving.

When you lockdown to save people from dying of covid, you give the death sentence to someone ill with something else. Young and old, children, teens, babies, elderly, and everyone in between. And they will die. But as long as it's not from covid then that's ok, right? Why is their life any less important?

600,000 people die a year in the UK. If that doubled it would be a price worth paying to obtain back our freedoms. I don't mind if there is a much bigger chance that I die. The one certainty we all have anyway is we are going to die some day.

However I am not going to break the law. I suspect the sheer pointlessness of lockdown will soon be clear to a lot of people however and the state will have to stop having lock down after lockdown as otherwise we will not be able to pay nurses and there will be no NHS.

Treatment did not stop because of lockdown but because of the virus, and it's predicted effect on nhs capacity. They are desperately trying to keep all medical treatment going, because they don't want to have to choose what to do based on available staff numbers. So if you want all medical treatment to continue, join the fight to suppress the virus

You cannot suppress a virus. And they aren't desperately trying to keep treatments for other things going at all! All treatments have stopped in my area. Pregnant women cannot get the essential card they need from f2f appointments. Women post partum have no aftercare. I WORK with these women, I speak to them daily fielding calls from parents who have no clue where to turn because there's no support. My cousin's cancer treatment HAS STOPPED. And she will die. Why is her life less important than someone who catches covid? Can you tell me that? Her and the millions of others. When did the needs of the few start to outweigh the needs of the many??

I will be following 'the rules' however, it appears half my friends list has fucked off abroad for a month to avoid it all. And honestly, its bloody tempting.

@pontypridd

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

By living in a country, enjoying its services and by voting you agreed to submit to the laws of that country. If you want more freedom then I understand there are still remote areas in the US, Canada or Russia where you could be truly independent.

People are still allowed to protest and object to laws they do not agree with or support @LastTrainEast. We see it all the time. Poll tax, bedroom tax, Brexit. It is no less legitimate to protest about the gov response to Covid.