Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

So I have a question for you op :
Baring in mind , and during your lifetime - What protests have you successfully organised and fought ? What was the reason for it ? Who's rights / situations were they for ? What area of the UK have you stood for as an MP to assist those around you to bring about change ?
Please answer as I'm very interested in your reply to see how you believe we can bring about the end to this world's pandemic .

'Dementors, dementors, dementors.'

There is not one hysterical, overreacting comment on here. Well, apart from the op saying 'fight back!!' Of course.

But to do effective track and trace and quarantining. And paying people to quarantine would make all the difference.

Agree totally about paying people to quarantine provided you can enforce the quarantine and not just pay them and keep your fingers crossed that they will comply.

But I think people's expectations of track and trace ever working once the virus is endemic are hopelessly optimistic. They have only worked anywhere where infection levels are low, so it may be a learning for the next virus but way too late for this one.

For the best insight I can find on how to cope with this, Google an episode of Porridge called 'A quiet night in'.

Genuine wisdom from an ancient British sitcom. 😀

But Korea managed it.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince I am very happy to hear that the children and teens you know are all doing fine. I’m not sure what this proves? I live in a big city and my children attend three different schools, and yet I only know of one person who caught Covid - that doesn’t prove anything either.

I took issue with your first post when you seemed to think that people are claiming that their mental health is suffering because they can’t go to the pub or have dinner parties. It seemed to me that your empathy was reserved to those who are suffering with health (or perhaps even Covid) related anxiety?

There are a number of other perfectly valid reasons why some of us are feeling incredibly anxious and depressed right now.

Right now people seem to be telling us that as long as we aren’t dead from Covid, we shouldn’t complain, as nothing else could possibly be as bad. Apparently to some, any price is worth paying to ensure people don’t catch or spread Covid.

Perhaps it would help to keep in mind that all Covid measures are based on models and projections, and that sometimes these are not correct. They predicted 85k dead in Sweden in spring and that clearly didn’t happen so I think we can all agree that there is still a lot we don’t know about how this epidemic will pan out.

@SusannaSpider

Okay, I really need a mn break. I can’t deal with the level of idiocy. It’s not just about you dying it’s about putting doctors in a position where they would have to play God and choose who gets a ventilator and who doesn’t, then they have to live with that trauma. No doctor wants to make that call ever. So fighting back actually means behaving like a self absorbed selfish prick.

This 100x over, I can't believe the crap I'm reading on MN tonight. I hope this isn't representative of most of England, as my parents live there and I worry for them.

No please don't worry . The vast majority of us are sane human beings who ,whilst bored rigid by restrictions to daily life , understand that this is needed. Our greatest question is why did he wait so long and not lockdown over half term .. schools staying open dilutes the whole plan.

Even yesterday we had three of our most respected specialists making it clear that we are in the position that we are in because for ten years we've had a government who won't fund public services.

I don’t agree with everything our government does but we’re not the only country in the world with Covid.

Some people want a full lockdown for their physical and mental health.
Others want no rules to save the economy.

Surely a partial lockdown to get numbers back under control and then carry on with masks and washing hands afterwards is a good compromise?

WiseupJanetweiss ( love the name- Let’s do the Tiiiiiime waaaarp again🎶)

Yes, they maybe would. But realistically how many would choose to infect themselves? And even if some did, it would be much cheaper and better for the economy than total lockdown.

@TheSandman Let’s check back in a couple of months to see how the Australian lockdown worked. Perhaps they simply kicked the can down the road?

But Korea managed it.

South Korea have a very different attitude to data privacy and citizen rights to Western European.

The government can access your banking data, mobile phone data and all CCTV footage captured to track your movements. They can and do publish the geolocations of diagnosed Covid cases.

They have so many more tools at their disposal. It’s not comparing apples with apples in the slightest.

🤷🏼‍♀️What do you want me to say? My kids and yours are different people.
I know several people who’ve had it And school bubbles popping left right and centre near me.

There are a number of other perfectly valid reasons why some of us are feeling incredibly anxious and depressed right now.

I understand this and agree to some extent. But surely someone who has depression or anxiety due to their own terminal illness or someone they love being made worse by Covid trumps the depression or anxiety caused by not being able to go to the pub or a non- essential shop.

I don’t understand why the people who are against the rules believe their mental health is more important than those who are willing to accept the rules.

Many people I know who have mental health issues are made worse by people not wanting to follow the rules more than the pubs closing early.

Yes, l know Korea has these issues.

But they government could still do better than they are. Just paying people to isolate would make a huge difference.

We should be fighting back.

Flutter 2♥️♥️♥️♥️

My experience exactly. And the majority of the public support and follow rules.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince of course, I was only making the point that anecdotal evidence is just that - anecdotal

@IceniWarrior

Need a MN break too. Dislike the human race. I dont understand when people became so weak. I'm talking about those who are simply in a huff because they can't meet with others or go shopping or on holiday. Then use poor mental health as an excuse when all they mean is that they feel upset that they are now inconvenienced, making a mockery of real mental health issues.

^ well said !

So let me get this straight, you wouldn't stay at home for 4 weeks or even more if it meant saving the life of a loved one? weird.

But they government could still do better than they are

Yes, but to hold up a country that essentially has citizens under constant surveillance as an achievable model is ridiculous.

Track and trace has not been successfully implemented anywhere in Western Europe and it’s not difficult to see how cultural/legal norms are huge barriers.

Branches OK🙂 this whole thing is a nightmare😭😭😭it’s bloody awful for everyone.

We are where we are right now, but yet nobody expressing disquiet about the lockdown has offered a viable alternative

They never do @HomerRoberts.

Actually that’s untrue, usually it’s a speech about how we need to learn to accept death whilst completely ignoring the impact of collapsing the healthcare system with people who are just ill and are not going to die (with medical intervention). They usually talk in percentages rather than actual figures.

I find it incredibly disturbing how many people seem to be capable of completely ignoring the fact that they’re comfortable with sentencing thousands of people to a pretty horrific lonely death and ‘other’ people will have to deal with that face to face.

I need to emigrate.

I feel so sorry for those that will lose their business or their jobs or already have done. There isn't anything I can so for these people ( I do support my friends who have their own businesses from home selling things) but generally it's so depressing for everyone. Not sure who you could fight though? We elect governments to make these decisions good and bad and the furlough scheme is there for some ( it's not perfect but it is there for some )
It's all shit but who can you fight realistically?

So what would you suggest Keating? Because the government are making a pike of shite of everything they do.