Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

getoffyourhighhorse not bollocks at all. Yes recommendations have been for older people to self isolate, but how many do you know in that age range who have been sticking indoors, self isolating, 100% of the time? Not many (my own mum included!). 99% of deaths are amongst the elderly, so clearly they haven’t been self isolating otherwise they would not have caught covid (exceptions here being care homes and hospitals).

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

There was an amazing doctor in TV yesterday. Something to do with the NHS. She was saying the way through this is not to lock down.

But to do effective track and trace and quarantining. And paying people to quarantine would make all the difference.

Paying people £1K to quarantine sounded like a great idea to me - happy to put up with a bit of fraudy activity to help the majority - until my DH pointed out that will lead to people deliberately catching it to get their money...

I do still think we need to do something radical. I do wonder whether implementing a generous Universal Basic Income now would be the best option. Simple, and no-one gets left behind.

I don't know what the answer is but I do know that there is no single answer that everyone would support. Whatever the approach, some people would be unhappy with it.

Some people have been calling for a new circuit breaker/lockdown for weeks; some people don't want one now. Some people want schools back; some don't. Some people are willing to countenance a higher level of risk than others - either because that is their nature or because of their individual circumstances. Some people are optimists; some are pessimists. Some have better mental health than others. Some like to see everything as a huge drama; others are more stoic and just get on with it. Some have a lot more to lose from lockdown than others (financially and more generally).

Personally, I would have liked the tiered approach to continue, but I'm aware that it's easy for me to say that because I am in tier 1 and in an area where the infection rate is below the national average. I am disappointed that my gym will now have to close again, that I will be unable to do a number of other things that I have been doing, and that my (adult) children will not be able to visit us for a while, but that is a very small price to pay in the overall scheme of things. I have been much less affected by the pandemic than many people, and it's a price I am willing to pay.

@Teateaandmoretea

I would genuinely be interested to know:

When you see news reports from around the world showing bodies being piled up in due to storage overflowing and also acres of land being used for mass graves, what exactly do you attribute that to?

When you see on the news all of those very valuable doctors and health workers that have died and can never be replaced again, what do attribute that to?

@GetOffYourHighHorse the funeral was overseas at a time when it would not have been possible for her to travel (two week quarantine on both ends, she was an only child and would have done anything to be able to Athens but it simply wasn’t doable)

Athens = to attend. Apologies

has visions of people proudly breaking into pubs with smiles on their faces whilst landlords sit weeping at how thats just another expense they have to find none existent money to pay for

But l too have children. There’s no evidence of anxiety and insomnia amongst my teens and their friends. They’re just getting on with it. They are actually fine. And l worry about the economy too. I’m terrified.

I think everyone is worried about money and jobs. I don’t know anyone who isn’t.

I get a funeral over Zoom must be devastating. But can it be as devastating as everyone attending and someone spreading Covid making people die?

But l need to feel safe. I’m already on millions of drugs, have had quite a lot of support from mental health services during lockdown despite others not being able to. I’m too scared to go to work, and off sick, so will potentially lose my job too.

But l still prefer lockdown.

@GreatBigBeautifulTommorow So are you saying you’ve never been out mixing with people when you’ve had a cold? Because the common cold can be fatal to those with a compromised immune system. Any one of us could be harbouring an illness which could prove disastrous to someone else if passed on but that’s just a fact of life.

@m0therofdragons

Okay, I really need a mn break. I can’t deal with the level of idiocy. It’s not just about you dying it’s about putting doctors in a position where they would have to play God and choose who gets a ventilator and who doesn’t, then they have to live with that trauma. No doctor wants to make that call ever. So fighting back actually means behaving like a self absorbed selfish prick.

This.

Seriously? 'Fight back'? Who's asking us / telling us to do this? The Doctors. If you break your leg and the doctor tells you she needs to put it in a plaster cast and not to walk on it for a week do you 'fight back'?

Stop being a petulant whiner, OP.

It just prevents the masses being exposed all at once.

No shit, Sherlock .

@Iheartmysmart

The OP didn’t say fight the virus but fight for our freedom. I agree. We are too willingly handing over our livelihoods and freedoms to a Government who don’t deem it necessary to follow their own rules and who are yet to give a coherent reply to what their aim is and what their plans are to get us out of the mess they’ve created.

That is my take on it too now.

I agree with OP.

Yesterday's announcements have brought the Covid/Lockdown Police and the Dementors back out again in force, which isn't a surprise.

@nicky7654

I agree so rediculous having a lock down. It won't change a thing. People are dying from not getting cancer treatment or heart ops etc , need to focus on these people instead of shutting shops!

Lockdowns DO work.

Australia records zero local coronavirus cases for first time since June.

us.cnn.com/2020/11/01/asia/australia-zero-local-coronavirus-intl-hnk/index.html

We have not given up all our freedoms and rights.

If people had followed the rules we wouldn’t have to have a second lockdown.

We just have to adjust our lives for a few months just so we don’t have to have another lockdown - which no one wants.

If we don’t follow the rules after the lockdowns we will end up becoming like other countries and having stricter measures in place with harsher consequences.
I would rather not attend clubs or go to the pub for a few weeks than have these stricter rules.

You cannot fight this by rebelling.
You will only make it worse for everyone trying to cope with the rules already put in place.

Surely it’s worse for your mental health to be trying to fight the government and thinking they are against us all the time.

@pontypridd

It’s not going to be just 4 weeks.

By fighting I mean protest. We are all taking this lying down. As someone said up thread.

It’s important we ensure any restrictions are proportionate, democratically accountable and achieving what they set out to because they are the biggest threat to civil liberties in several generations. Anyone who doesn’t take that very seriously is sleepwalking

I agree with this one hundred percent.

In any case, it's the lockdown fans who seem to think that a virus can be 'defeated'.

No it can't. It's doing what viruses do. It will carry on doing it after this blasted Second Lockdown, and it will keep on doing it, however often we lock down. It will do it regardless of whether we close shops, schools, universities, restaurants or anything else you could name.

I would like to think that another lockdown is a bad joke, but it is far more damaging than that.

Do people think that people in Manchester, Liverpool and Nottingham are just selfish idiots who don't follow the rules and that those in Cornwall, Norfolk etc. Are more compliant, hence the Tier 3/Tier 1 status they respectively held ?
Seen that hinted at on a few threads, and it's incredibly short-sighted.
Nothing to do with the fact that they're very densely-populated areas with high levels of deprivation, and also several universities in each ?

I hope the doctors and nurses also decide to join this movement and fight back too.

A good old fashioned strike would probably work a treat.

Or is it only the civil liberties of everyone else that count?

@Versace104

Do people think that people in Manchester, Liverpool and Nottingham are just selfish idiots who don't follow the rules and that those in Cornwall, Norfolk etc. Are more compliant, hence the Tier 3/Tier 1 status they respectively held ? Seen that hinted at on a few threads, and it's incredibly short-sighted. Nothing to do with the fact that they're very densely-populated areas with high levels of deprivation, and also several universities in each ?

And low home working levels. And less people who are comfortably retired.

'the funeral was overseas at a time when it would not have been possible for her to travel (two week quarantine on both ends, she was an only child and would have done anything to be able to Athens but it simply wasn’t doable)'

Well sadly that is the chance you take when you live in another country. I used to work abroad knowing full well if a close family member became seriously ill I wouldn't be able to get back in time. Yes quarantine makes it much more difficult of course but even so, live thousands of miles away and you may well not be at a loved ones bedside.

'Yesterday's announcements have brought the Covid/Lockdown Police and the Dementors back out again in force, which isn't a surprise.'

Oh change the record. 'Dementors' 🙄🙄

You need to stop seeing it as an attack on your freedom. You are clearly not scared of covid. But do understand that with more covid patients there will be no staff or space for any other medical concerns? What if you fall down and break your arm? Car crash? Are you really ok to have no medical care AT ALL?

If so then you are really deluded and I feel sorry (and scared) for you.

It's your perceptions that are crazy. It seems like you do need some mental health support though. Do you have anyone to bubble with?

@RedToothBrush

I hope the doctors and nurses also decide to join this movement and fight back too.

A good old fashioned strike would probably work a treat.

Or is it only the civil liberties of everyone else that count?

🤣

@Flutter12

"If people had followed the rules we wouldn’t have to have a second lockdown."

Can we stop with that bullshit. This is a new contagious virus, of which we ate only just understanding how it spreads and it does well in cold weather. Every infectious disease specialist said that thos would happen because we opened up travel, so individual restrictions were barely going to be effective.

Even yesterday we had three of our most respected specialists making it clear that we are in the position that we are in because for ten years we've had a government who won't fund public services. They didn't use the knowledge and things like labs, that they had at their disposal and still aren't. They could have increased NHS capacity and they could have got more Staff. They've chosen not to.
Instead of filling everyone with fear, tbey should have been honest and told it like it was to the over 50's (of which I'm one). We now have a lower life expectancy. The odds of survival has lessened for many conditions. Our behaviour on a society level wasn't going to change that much. It's individual family decisions that were more important and death needed to be accepted as a consequence.

I only hope that it's remembered come election day. That's why it's important to understand why we are were we are.

Dementors, dementors, dementors.

@Branches1 missing family funerals because you or they live abroad is totally normal, even without COVID. I missed my grandfather's, grandmother's, and those of both aunts because they lived in a country where funerals are generally held within 24 hours so, unless you've flown in to say goodbye (not always possible esp w sudden deaths), you are not going to make it.

It's sad and horrible but that's what happens when family are widely spread.