Should we submit to the lockdown or fight back?

[pontypridd]

Just this.

I feel scared writing it. I know I'll be flamed.

But how long can people live like this for? I've lost so many family over the years - my mum too when I was young. We all get sick and die.

We can't lock up the whole world because of Covid. Are we just all going to submit? Or do we, should we fight for our freedom?

I know what you mean OP.

I was thinking last night about how many people will have died or will die because they’ve not had something potentially serious checked at the doctors because they’re scared of covid. Or all those who have killed themselves as a result. Whose lives are more important? So many lives are being lost or destroyed either way

@diplodocusinermine

I don't know if trying for a NZ style approach would work - look at how desperate people were for their 2 weeks in Spain (and it looks as if the strain currently overwhelming the NW can be explained by people returning from Spanish holidays and not isolating). NZ have basically allowed no-one in but citizens returning, and any returnees have had to isolate very strictly. Plus, NZ have a population a tenth of the UK on a larger landmass - it has to make a difference.

Taiwan is one of the most densely populated countries on earth and look at them.

There's very little tolerance for Covidiots in the countries who are doing well.

Whining bullshit is not indulged as much as it is here and in the USA.

Even in Murdoch's Australia, it's unacceptable for people to say they'd rather let thousands of their own people die and let their country's economy, health and education systems collapse than have a Lockdown.

It would be like insisting on having all your lights on during The Blitz.

Wind 'em up and watch 'em go.

It's hard to think of the bigger picture when your life is collapsing around your ears though

And then, you are meant to keep away from the people who you would normally turn to

This government is criminal. This lockdown will be longer than it needed to have been. And there is no sign of sorting out contact tracing and isolation which is the only thing that can give us any kind of life back until vaccine/treatments

The government should have done this a month or more ago but once again dither, dither, either rules the day.

I love how scientists have been warning us for years that a pandemic is overdue, one hits and impacts many countries in the same way (e.g. lockdowns), there's a genuine threat to the NHS which, again we've known about for years as it struggles even normally, but when the government finally implements measures to prevent the spread, that were advised weeks ago by people who actually know what they are talking about, it's actually all about taking away our human rights and civil liberties. Of course it is. That makes so much sense. Of course it's absolutely nothing to do with a novel, highly contagious virus that is sweeping the globe. It's nothing to do with the lack of resources the NHS has. It's all about making sure YOU stay at home, not spending money and isolating yourselves because that benefits.....who, exactly? And if the government is so desperate to take away our liberties, why did they ease restrictions before in the first lockdown? Why not just make measures tougher and tougher? Why encourage everyone back to some sort of normality? And then why delay when they were advised to implement a lockdown in October?

I know these conspiracy theorists love to assume a smug, superior air and act as if they "know" things us "sheeple" can't see, but honestly, by perpetuating this nonsense all you're doing is publicly showcasing your own lack of understanding and intelligence. None of it stands up to reason. It's a shit time. No one wants a lockdown. There will be repercussions no matter what approach we take. Fact is, the idea of our hospitals being overwhelmed is seriously concerning. Then people will be dying not just from covid but from illnesses and injuries they'd survive with medical care that they won't be able to access. That could be anyone, not "just" people with covid. I would rather not see my parents for a month than risk members of my family dying needlessly. That is more important to me than being allowed to go to the pub or a party.

Don't be a dick. Stay at home.

It's only people who think
A - COVID doesn't exist
B - COVID is a mild flu
C - COVID won't affect them because they are low risk
D - COVID couldn't possibly kill them or they are too healthy to die from a serious illness that will take longer to respond to because of COVID

who want to fight back. What does fight back mean?

OP I'm as absolutely fed up of restrictions as you. I really, really am. I'm going to have to put so much on hold that I've planned the next month. But I understand it has to happen. We can't let the hospitals become overwhelmed and reach max capacity. I'd be more upset if we couldn't access immediate medical attention in case of an emergency.

Think about people that went through the war. Where is the resilience the self reliance and the stiff upper lip we used to be so famous for? A woman from the village I grew up in lost five sons to the war - five! Her husband was gone the entire war almost six years and when he came home she didn't recognise him.

If people were to look inside themselves and find a bit of grit and think about ways around things, we would all be a lot better off.
Yes it doesn't help that entitled twats like Dominic Cummings behave like a knobber and then gets away with it but that doesn't affect you as an individual in your own bubble. Think about ways you can protect yourself, your loved ones and how you can build mental resilience and get through this intact. Stop looking at what others are doing and getting away with. Everyone is in the same boat. No one will die if they don't get a Christmas dinner!

@IceniWarrior

Need a MN break too. Dislike the human race. I dont understand when people became so weak. I'm talking about those who are simply in a huff because they can't meet with others or go shopping or on holiday. Then use poor mental health as an excuse when all they mean is that they feel upset that they are now inconvenienced, making a mockery of real mental health issues.

Completely agree

Could we start a national register of people like the OP who commit to not using the NHS for the next 18 months, regardless of what happens to them? All of the conspiracy 'free thinkers'. We need these idiots registered somewhere so that they see and feel the consequences of spouting nonsense on public forums and social media.

I do hear you OP - we are being very compliant as a nation but I am surprised that there are no protests!!!!

@BefuddledPerson

The government didn't make the virus but the government did make bad decisions that have made the virus worse.

Very true.

It’s quite possible to be of the opinion that the government is corrupt and shambolic, and has been using this crisis to further the political and financial aims of the Cabinet members and be of the view that lockdown is the only way we’re going to ride this out, until the vaccine coverage is sufficient to reduce the level of infections so that the health system can cope with both Covid patients and other patients.

I’m so sick of shit like this

Fight against what?

Are you happy for you and your family to not receive ANY NHS care because it and the staff have collapsed under the strain?

Your loved one has a heart attack or stroke but can’t receive care because the NHS is full of covid patients so left to die from a treatable condition?

You need an appointment for cancer....nope! Cancelled as everyone is working on the wards?

Sign your disclaimer that you and your family won’t need the NHS and CRACK ON

I think those that want to protest, not wear masks, wash their hands etc should have the freedom to do so.
But with that they should have to give up their access to medical treatment on the NHS or assistance from any form of services like police.

Some people are so worried about not being sheep and trying to rebel against the ‘man’ that they don’t realise they are the bigger sheep for blindly following something that would put themselves and the people they care about at greater risk.

@DoTheMaccaroni

I know what you mean OP.

I was thinking last night about how many people will have died or will die because they’ve not had something potentially serious checked at the doctors because they’re scared of covid. Or all those who have killed themselves as a result. Whose lives are more important? So many lives are being lost or destroyed either way

Putting it bluntly the ones that present to the health service in large numbers in the same short space of time.

We haven’t got many more strategies for prevention than we currently have for people who are suicidal or develop cancer and they’re not contagious. Covid is a factor we can control to an extent; control that and other services can operate.

If we care about other areas of healthcare then the best thing to do is control the rates of covid infection so they can run in some form.

There are now riots across Spain. Been various riots and demonstrations in various European countries. In Germany I think people are twitchy about the state having too much control.
In Spain and Italy it's the awful economic impact driving it.
The Brits are very placid in general.

@Remmy123

I do hear you OP - we are being very compliant as a nation but I am surprised that there are no protests!!!!

Not this lockdown specifically, but there have been protests. Not particularly popular ones. Did you miss the news reports on corbyns brother leading a couple?

And riots would help exactly how?

Surely the best way out of this mess is for people to go above and beyond and formal requirements and cut human interaction as much as possible.

Look, Boris is an arse and I certainly didn't vote for the Tories. But justifying wanting to rebel against lockdown on the basis that our government is incompetent just won't wash. What about all the other countries that are locking down? Do they all have incompetent governments?

Besides, people can't even agree on whether the Tories 1) shouldn't be locking down again at all 2) should be stricter about it 3) should have locked down again sooner etc etc. So it's not as if we are all united on how or whether they've got it wrong.

There's very little tolerance for Covidiots in the countries who are doing well. Whining bullshit is not indulged as much as it is here and in the USA.

There are also radically different attitudes to citizen rights and data privacy in many of the countries that are ‘doing well’ to use your phrase.

Many measures taken just would not be legal or tolerated in western democracies.

I totally agree with you OP. But in order to "fight" back all you need to do is disregard the so called "rules". See who you want when you want and don't wear a mask. No need to "fight" just live your life.

It all stops when we say no

I agree with OP. The deification of the NHS by people that have been trying to dismantle it for years is sickening. And now it's our job to protect it? Absolute cunts. Divide and conquer is their only plan.
I'm not sure what can be done though. I feel very deflated.

Don't go out then.

@GreatBigBeautifulTommorow at the peak last time there were nurses in empty wards with nothing to do!! Hardly under strain

Some were on here saying not to clap for them because there weren't doing anything!!