Are holidays still allowed?

[pontypridd]

Or going to holiday homes?

@LittleRen

I have a feeling my co worker's plans may come unstuck when he gets out there and the return flights may be cancelled or reduced!

I think you're right. How on earth are they going to get home again?

@vera99
If they were doing it properly - restricting to only essential travel, then your example would come under compassionate need. Far more essential than many banker ski work trips.

Australia and NZ are allowing the former but not the latter. Strict monitoring. Which I suspect we won't be doing here. Hence the lockdown being a largely pointless hardship.

As Professor Sridhar says:

Any progress with #Lockdown2 will be wiped out by UK continuing to reimport the virus

Three paths for governments: ‘simmer’ virus & be stuck in lockdown/release cycles, do nothing & let it rip or aim for elimination with strong test/trace/isolation, good guidance to public & border measures. Two of the above paths lead to large economic costs; one less so.

@ilovesooty I think airlines will still be operating just at a reduced capacity. They wont suspend all flights. Airlines are on the brink of collapse as it is. They will do what they can to keep up and running. I also can't see them turning passengers away who want to fly with them, hence why I do wonder how this 'ban' is going to be enforced. I imagine @LittleRen's co worker may find their flight cancelled but there will be other flights available, especially to and from popular destinations.

but there will be other flights available, especially to and from popular destinations.

But if there is no demand, airlines are not going to fly a plane to the Canary Islands. They have huge fixed costs so won't Portia flight unless it's fairly full.

Sorry operate (not portia )

@Sonnenscheins

but there will be other flights available, especially to and from popular destinations.

But if there is no demand, airlines are not going to fly a plane to the Canary Islands. They have huge fixed costs so won't Portia flight unless it's fairly full.

If there's no demand then there's no harm in enforcing a ban (on inbound as well as outbound). Genuinely essential travel in and out only. Just as other countries have done.

Either we (finally) do this lockdown properly, or it will have been hardship for nothing because as Prof Sridhar explains we'll simply re-import Covid - and keep on dragging out this whole shitty situation.

But the coworker wont be flying to the canary islands. They will be flying back to the UK after they fly to the canary islands on wednesday. The issue isnt getting there, its getting back after thursday, but I imagine there will be flights into the UK. You are right though that getting out to the canaries after thursday may be an issue but I still imagine it will be a reduced timetable (maybe one flight a day as opposed to 3 or 4) rather than none at all.

Yes. There might be reduced flights but aside from that we're going to continue to import Covid (still with no proper quarantine). Makes the lockdown rather a pointless hardship.

He said today as we left that he has been told they will repatriate British people back... not sure who they is, but he doesn’t seem concerned!! Crazy.

He is right in a sense. If his airline fly them out before lockdown, then I read somewhere (news outlet) that they legally have to fly them back after lockdown. They cant just abandon them, especially if they already have flights booked to return home. I think if he cancels the holiday now, before lockdown, he doesnt get a refund because there was technically no reason for him not to fly before thursday.

He is right in a sense. If his airline fly them out before lockdown, then I read somewhere (news outlet) that they legally have to fly them back after lockdown.

That may well be the case - but often with the caveat (one of many) of "as soon as possible"..

In terms of what might happen my guess is that I think any airlines who specialise in holiday package deals and who have a guaranteed passenger load home to the UK will probably suck up the loss making empty outbound legs to the likes of the Canaries until all the Brits are back..

I'd be less confident of things running to plan if the flights were with "scheduled" operators (e.g. Ryanair, Easyjet, BA) because the mix of people they carry, they'll have individuals cancelling already and that will effect the viability of both outbound and inbound sectors.

The aviation industry is in deep deep doo doo..

The aviation industry is in deep deep doo doo..

As someone who relies on the aviation industry to be able to see my family, specifically the cheap airlines so my DDs get to see their GPs regularly, I agree, and I am very worry about the future of air travel.

He is right in a sense. If his airline fly them out before lockdown, then I read somewhere (news outlet) that they legally have to fly them back after lockdown

But not necessarily on the same time and day. This is especially an issue for the 'out and back' airlines like easyJet, Jet2 etc that mainly serve holiday makers. They won't be sending any planes out from Thursday onwards but in theory might have bookings for several half empty planes coming back.

So it's likely they'll put people from several flights on one plane, even if it means shortening or lengthening holidays.

So it's likely they'll put people from several flights on one plane, even if it means shortening or lengthening holidays.

^^Agreed.

The airlines will almost certainly start to consolidate flights (I know some have started already).

As I understand it the operator has to offer the customer a means of getting home or a refund....there's no requirement for the return journey to be on the originally planned date or for them even to offer travel on the originally planned form of transport ( so..home from Canaries by boat ).

Who goes away in November anyway?
Me actually. And also January. My holidays were booked ( and now cancelled)

God I hate what this fucking virus has done to everyone on both sides of the argument.

Oh yes the business exemption will have the bankers and hedgies jetting off to plush villas for round the pool breakfast meetings. All the Queen gets is to swap places in dark cold UK and decide if Andrew gets to have Christmas dinner with her and Phil.

Oh yes the business exemption will have the bankers and hedgies jetting off to plush villas for round the pool breakfast meetings

I have no idea what will be on the new UK exemption list but FWIW If you have a look at the current travel exemptions from inbound quarantine for the UK you'll see there's much more to this than simply allowing a select band of high earners to swan around as if they were one of the cast in Mad Men..

www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules/coronavirus-covid-19-travellers-exempt-from-uk-border-rules

If they aren't, I would love to know how so many friends are managing to bugger off to the canaries over yesterday and today?! Mind, I suspect airlines will be 'lax' with any rules as they need the cash too.

I have a friend who is cabin crew for a european airline. He flies a lot out in and out if the UK. He told me yesterday that they havent been told yet that they will be monitoring the reasons for people flying etc to ensure the travel is essential. He cant see any airline turning anyone away right now. They need the money. Maybe passport control would decide? It seems bit messy and unclear about how it will be enforced.

I suspect airlines will be 'lax' with any rules as they need the cash too.

Given the grumbles in this place about people being given the third degree about arriving in restaurants in multiple vehicles I can see some people being very unhappy if the details and reasons for travel are questioned by a member of ground staff..

I'm not sure who or how the UK outbound rule is going to be policed wef from end of the week, but FWIW in many countries the police or "Border" check outbound passenger details......

Would that be acceptable in the UK?

@SqidgeBum

Maybe passport control would decide?

There's no outbound passport control at any UK airport I have ever travelled through.

@notimagen there isnt a passport 'control' as such, but I know when I travel through Birmingham there is a person who physically checks my passport before I get to security if I give through one of the two entrances to security. The other is just a scan machine. They would have to up the checks both at security and at the check in desk as you couldn't have peoples bags go on and then the passenger denied entry to the plane. That would cause the bags to have to be taken off and all planes delayed, and planes fined for late take off.

Its very complicated tbh. I really dont know how it would work.

Hotels are required (or were in the last lockdown) to ask for evidence of being a key worker or in an 'allowed' category before accepting anyone.

I don't see why the airlines can't do the same.

If you are going abroad on business you always have some kind of proof of that.

If we are doing lockdown we need to do it properly and people should expect to be challenged when breaking the law.

@RainingBatsAndFrogs the issue is regarding essential travel. If you are going travelling to the UK because your parent has had a heart attack or you adult child is dying, will you be turned away?