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AIBU to think those who are against this Lockdown only care about themselves?

163 replies

Tier2Minus · 31/10/2020 16:35

The way back to a healthy economy, to saving lives, to normal NHS function, to normal schooling for our kids and normal lives for ourselves is by getting the virus firmly under control like they have done in Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and South Korea.

Lazy, negative defeatist people talk down our country and say it can't be done. If those other countries can do it, of course Britain can do it too.

Those of us who care about our country would stay positive and make the effort.

Would you?

OP posts:
MadameBlobby · 31/10/2020 18:48

So is it collapsing this month worse than it collapsing at any other time?

Tier2Minus · 31/10/2020 18:48

Ooh, he's on.

OP posts:
TiersTiersTiers · 31/10/2020 18:59

The think is @Tier2Minus is that we have been following all the rules and guidelines and still have a low infection level.

Reading other threads on here lots in some tier 3 areas are basically not following the guidelines anyway. Some will not follow rules and guidelines and so need treating like children with a full lock down.

The rest of us shouldn't be punished due to idiots but that looks increasingly likely

PinkSparklyPussyCat · 31/10/2020 19:00

@MadameBlobby

So is it collapsing this month worse than it collapsing at any other time?
Apparently so Confused
Gladysthesphinx · 31/10/2020 19:15

Maybe look up the statistics about the huge numbers of deaths in developing countries that are projected to be caused by lockdown, deaths from malaria and tb and hiv and malnutrition. About the rise in preventable deaths in the west caused by lockdown - from heart disease and cancer and stroke. Maybe think about the collapsed small businesses. About the unemployed parents. The people who won’t be able to pay their mortgages. About the huge cuts in government expenditure we will inevitably be seeing - the inevitable huge cuts to schools budgets and health budgets and social services budgets. You thought austerity was bad? Wait till you see what’s coming. About the children whose education suffers. The women abused in their homes. The rise in social disadvantage.

Lockdown is absolutely great, just fantastic, for wealthy tech moguls. Think Dorsey and Bezos. And it’s fine for middle class westerners with secure middle class jobs that can be done at home while they wait for their sourdough to rise. But for the rest of us: no.

It’s a deeply, monstrously selfish policy- one that makes the poor, the young and the powerless carry the cost of preserving the lives of a minority of very very frail and elderly people. And yes, I speak as a high risk person - with a severe pre-existing condition. I’m just not grossly selfish and cowardly enough to want to see young people mortgage their futures to keep me safe. The people who are that selfish: I think they have lost all sight of decency and morality and our duties to the young and vulnerable. Maybe that’s you, OP?

Honestly, when I see this kind of post it makes me want to scream. Lockdown is a selfish policy for privileged people which will destroy the poor. That’s it. OP, maybe it’s time to start realising you’re the bad guy here.

Oliversmumsarmy · 31/10/2020 19:15

I think Maslow's heirachy of needs is the thing here. You need your basic needs met before you can consider the bigger stuff. So when housing, heating, food ie the basics, are met you can consider the bigger stuff

But we face losing this if we go into lockdown again.

How many people have lost their livelihood during the last lockdown. How many people are working through their savings.

How many people are facing this prospect, losing the roof over their heads, can’t pay the basic bills.

75% of our family are reliant on the hospitality industry.

Sertchgi123 · 31/10/2020 19:23

@Tier2Minus

The way back to a healthy economy, to saving lives, to normal NHS function, to normal schooling for our kids and normal lives for ourselves is by getting the virus firmly under control like they have done in Taiwan, Australia, New Zealand and South Korea.

Lazy, negative defeatist people talk down our country and say it can't be done. If those other countries can do it, of course Britain can do it too.

Those of us who care about our country would stay positive and make the effort.

Would you?

I think the opposite. I don't want a lockdown because I want people to be able to work.

Older, vulnerable people need to stay at home and let the younger people go to work.

psychomath · 31/10/2020 21:19

I, along with many of the people I know, am at much higher risk of serious health problems due to isolation and mental health issues than I am of dying from covid. I suffered from a psychiatric condition for many years that caused me to do a lot of harm to myself, including at one point starving myself until I weighed six stone (that's a BMI of 14.5 at my height, if anyone's interested). Right around the time covid hit I was starting to become genuinely well again for the first time in a long time. Unfortunately isolation is a particular risk factor for me, and seeing friends is the most effective way to improve my own health when I hit a rough patch. Shame about that, I guess.

During the last lockdown I didn't see a single person I knew for nine weeks. I was genuinely too afraid to post on here for support because of the sheer level of vitriol being directed at anyone who dared admit to struggling for reasons other than being hospitalised or bereaved due to covid. I fell out badly with a good friend because, after six weeks of total isolation, I went for a longer walk than she thought was 'necessary; which she claimed was putting the NHS at risk. Apart from a two week period in July where I visited my parents, who live on the other side of the country, and one time when I hugged my best friend whom I hadn't seen for months (and haven't since), I haven't touched another person since March 21st. I don't know when I will next, nor do I know when I will next see my family or closest friends, and I fully expect to spend Christmas alone. I have no intention of going against any of the rules or guidance, unless it's genuinely an emergency.

But that doesn't matter to a lot of people, because it's not enough just to follow the guidance. We have to stay positive, be 'resilient', bake banana bread and shut up about our problems, otherwise we have the wrong attitude. God forbid.

I have been very, very lucky in that I have good friends at my work, which is in a school and reasonably secure, and as such I'm more or less okay now. This lockdown won't really affect me. Many people aren't in such a fortunate position and have posted on here about their mental health, financial problems or inability to access treatment for other conditions - only to get told that others have it worse, this isn't the Black Death, they're not really isolated because Zoom, British people are whingers, or some random person's granny lived through the Second World War, so no-one else is allowed to have a single negative feeling about their own life being turned upside down in the space of a year. Never mind that suicide is killing people RIGHT NOW, or that people are facing homelessness RIGHT NOW. Never mind that, like covid, poverty and mental health crises can have long term repercussions that go way beyond whether or not you survive the immediate event. And it's not enough to say that not locking down would lead to more problems in the future, because for the people who are already dying or dead, there is no future. For the people who are on the brink of destitution now, "but otherwise you'd be poor later" doesn't look like a worse option.

For years I've been seeing people make cute little posts on facebook about the importance of mental health, and listened to friends talk about the terrible effects of austerity and child poverty under the Tory government. Well, turns out everyone wants to look like they care, right up to the point where other people's efforts to avoid either of those things might actually affect their own lives. Now, suddenly, the people suffering are idiots who don't care about anyone else, and the whole reason why we got into this state in the first place. Funny, that.

Luckily for the rest of you, you don't need to worry about poverty and suicide because they're not contagious. You can carry on putting the boot into people who are suffering because it makes you feel good, or maybe helps you to convince yourself that they're different from you, and you'll never find yourself in their shoes. And people like me will have to put up with being told, repeatedly, that we're acceptable collateral damage of lockdowns and restrictions, even if we're at risk of dying from them, because what can we do about it? But don't then act shocked when we 'selfishly' decide to value our own immediate needs above sacrificing our health further than we already have for your sake.

So all that to say, you're right, OP. I don't feel particularly inclined to care about anyone beyond my own friends and family. Because why the fuck should I, when others have made it perfectly clear that they've got theirs, and they don't give a damn about people like me?

Posturesorposes · 31/10/2020 21:25

When I read posts like the OP, I do wonder what motivates people to post such things. Things are so desperately hard this year, for the vast majority of us. We are all sort of caught between a rock and a hard place, with loads of us more vulnerable than others - some to the disease and some to the measures. At such a time, amidst such turmoil, what motivates OP to take the time and post such divisive things? Why not - just - let things be. Let people get on with the shitshow of 2020 and just not post such things?

MrsSnitchnose · 31/10/2020 22:55

When I read posts like the OP, I do wonder what motivates people to post such things

This^ YABU. I'm public sector with a pretty safe job and I'm very against locking down again. I don't care about only myself but I do care for my poor self employed hairdresser who was royally fucked over last time and had now been told she can't work again. I also care about my autistic DS who's mental health deteriorated drastically with only me for company and who will be one of those footing the bill for this farce for years to come

MaxNormal · 31/10/2020 23:15

I am in the "women between 20-40" age group who are most in danger of being hospitalised with Covid.

Where in God's green earth did you pick up that idea?! You're at minimal risk!
But your attitude makes sense now. A coward afraid to risk your own hide, happy to selfishly see millions destitute.

Tier2Minus · 01/11/2020 02:11

@MaxNormal

I am in the "women between 20-40" age group who are most in danger of being hospitalised with Covid.

Where in God's green earth did you pick up that idea?! You're at minimal risk!
But your attitude makes sense now. A coward afraid to risk your own hide, happy to selfishly see millions destitute.

As I keep saying, It's not about me. I'm as fit as a butcher's dog.

It's about what's best for our country.

Is it really so incomprehensible that some people care about the greater good?

I choose Lockdown now over thousands of British people dying every week for the foreseeable future.

Your mileage may vary.

OP posts:
Tier2Minus · 01/11/2020 02:12

@MadameBlobby

So is it collapsing this month worse than it collapsing at any other time?
Having a firm date for the collapse in a few weeks time does concentrate the mind rather, yes.
OP posts:
Tier2Minus · 01/11/2020 02:15

@Posturesorposes

When I read posts like the OP, I do wonder what motivates people to post such things. Things are so desperately hard this year, for the vast majority of us. We are all sort of caught between a rock and a hard place, with loads of us more vulnerable than others - some to the disease and some to the measures. At such a time, amidst such turmoil, what motivates OP to take the time and post such divisive things? Why not - just - let things be. Let people get on with the shitshow of 2020 and just not post such things?
I thought it would be nice to have an alternative to the

"Shut away millions of people so that I don't have to change a thing about MY life"

posts.

OP posts:
Tier2Minus · 01/11/2020 02:25

@Oliversmumsarmy

On deaths per capita in Europe, the U.K. is 3rd. Sweden is 5th ahead of France and the Netherlands

They are already 5th with 0 deaths today. Whilst 4 countries that locked down in some cases harshly have worse death rates and the other countries below them that probably also locked down have also probably got rising deaths.

It isn’t over yet.

I expect them to remain top 10 for most deaths per capita in Europe and Top 15 in the world. Their trajectory is going very firmly in the wrong direction.

www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-lockdown-sceptics-get-wrong-about-sweden

OP posts:
Dongdingdong · 01/11/2020 03:48

You mean care about themselves in the sense of being terrified of losing their jobs and businesses, and not being able to pay their mortgages and keep a roof over their heads?
What a stupid fucking post.

This.

FredaFrogspawn · 01/11/2020 04:17

@Elle10x0

kills people who are about to die ?

Yes. The average death age is in the eighties. Of course we need to shield the elderly but we’re going to have many more deaths due to suicide / poverty / domestic abuse if we don’t have a balance.

The average age of those who die of covid is older than the national average age of death apparently.

This debate is fascinating.

Susanwouldntlikeit · 01/11/2020 04:39

Lockdown is a selfish policy for privileged people which will destroy the poor. That’s it. OP, maybe it’s time to start realising you’re the bad guy here.
Agree, fine for smug retired, public sector and wealthy.
I am teacher with a relatively secure job and so financially will not take a hit in the short time but I am totally against lockdown, because there is zero evidence that it firs any good, but masses of evidence of serious long term harm.

Treatscatscrave · 01/11/2020 06:18

The previous two posters have summed it up for me. It's not an understatement to say that I'm beginning to despise pro-lockdowners.

As we're bandying such emotive words like selfish here, may I suggest that pro-lockdowners are witless because they fail to understand two fundamentals of life:

a, The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
b, Some things ARE worse than death.

I will not associate with anyone who is pro -lockdown again unless I have to. I regard such people as being thick as pig shit and lacking my in any true understanding of life.

Other than the socialising aspect, I've NOT- thankfully- been badly affected at all. Quite the reverse, I'm doing well out of it financially.
How's that for your selfish theory, OP?

It has also been the tipping point in making me get a divorce- livingwith a man who doesn't see how stupid it is to keep 85-year-olds away from their loved ones for months on end in order to keep them 'safe' is not me.

And if you feel the same, I want nothing to do with you, either.

emilybrontescorsett · 01/11/2020 07:05

Very interesting video and I’m inclined to agree. So much damage being caused to millions. I think the underlying fact is this:
The conservatives have systematically underfunded the NHS for years . The problem is the increase in covid patients means not enough beds are available for other patients. This is a great excuse for lack of funding not to be highlighted. You can’t have your scheduled operation because of covid.

Oliversmumsarmy · 01/11/2020 09:03

Tier2Minus

I expect them to remain top 10 for most deaths per capita in Europe and Top 15 in the world. Their trajectory is going very firmly in the wrong direction

There deaths were at 0 yesterday I thought that would have been the goal for everyone.

From the article

Sweden took a big gamble with people’s lives, but one that paid off

That sums it up perfectly.

I didn’t think Swedes were living in some free for all. They have SD and masks and certain restrictions and their deaths are either quite low or 0
What they don’t have is lockdowns

What they don’t have is suicides because of lockdowns

Sertchgi123 · 01/11/2020 09:06

Sweden has a similar population to London. Go figure.

CherryPavlova · 01/11/2020 09:12

I think one of the worst aspects is that Tory politicians are driving a hate agenda. They are absolutely corrupt and failing. It’s party disaster capitalism and partly a Brexit smokescreen.

Lockdown is necessary but should have been a month ago and should have been much tighter for a shorter period of time. If we can afford £12 billion on a failing track and trace system, we’ve enough money to get by. There will be jobs; different jobs probably, less consumerism hopefully, but perhaps that’s no bad thing for the world.

Oliversmumsarmy · 01/11/2020 09:26

Sweden has a similar population to London. Go figure

Stolkholm is only a little less densely populated than London

yearinyearout · 01/11/2020 09:28

Totally disagree. The lockdown won't affect me financially but I'm extremely concerned for the general economy and the jobs of others in the hospitality industry.

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