Secondary schools are fucked

[noblegiraffe]

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

I saw a thread here the other day where someone said that if teachers were dying of Covid it would be on the news. I wonder how many people have seen this. And there are currently 5 staff members off with confirmed Covid in my nearby secondary.

www.walesonline.co.uk/news/wales-news/heartbroken-pupils-parents-staff-pay-19186375

I’ve just heard of 6 deaths and 4 icu cases in my extended family, until today had heard of none.

That’s terrible news, I’m so sorry

@StaffAssociationRepresentative

But some parents don't like the ventilation idea. We have had threads on that!

I'm sure they don't. I'm not wild about it myself, especially since I have a DC who is a teacher. But if we're ever going to get on top of this then we all have to understand how this is spreading and suck up a measure of unpleasantness for a while if we are ever going to get on top of it, otherwise all the suffering so far has been pointless.

It may be that ventilation systems can be introduced. Even if the windows are thrown open for five minutes every half an hour or something it's better than nothing, but I fully realise it's far from ideal.

This is what we are dealing with. 💐

BeebityBoo

I think gov would prefer parents to deregister, fewer on roll for spread of virus or to teach.
I think this is your only option, not right though.

wuwubaba

I mean a) what do you think about the graphs in the OP but also b) take your passive aggressive nonsense somewhere else.

That was a bit jumbled, but you get my drift! 😊

The report referred to says this in the executive summary "Detections of COVID-19 cases in England continued to increase in week 43. Incidence and
positivity rates remain highest in the North of England. By age group, cases rates were highest
in the 20 to 29 year olds with decreases continuing to be noted in the 10 to 19 year olds." If you read the details it shows covid rates are less in school age children than adults and coming down in young adults (university age). It really doesn't support the theory that closing schools is key

nobel

We weren't close, but thank you.
It's our culture to call anyone remotely related, you should see us sitting with the bodies until the funeral. That's been very interesting during covid times.

My point really was that it's easy to get complacent and say well it can't be that bad...... but it is and kids are spreading the virus whether we like it or not. .
I know you don't want schools closed, but I can't see any other way, for at least a few weeks anyway.

Please don't take on those insulting you, and thanks for your threads

@CallmeAngelina

"But I do get the feeling that some teachers are reluctant to go back to school, so they are actively trying to get the school close down."

You "get the feeling?" Really? And we are meant to give that headspace?

I have to teach one year online on Monday I am panicking about that. I would not be of they were all in as normal. So don't talk nonsense.

@Hopeisnotastrategy. The windows are always open in my classroom - touch them and you are given detention. All my students understand that now

Sorry not at you Angelina obviously

It's a joke to keep schools open in their current format.
My school has implemented measures including year group bubbles, one way systems, enhanced cleaning schedules, 1m apart at lunchtimes, masks in corridors etc etc.
What's the point of this when I have to share a poorly ventilated staff / work room with several others, teach A level groups in tiny unventilated rooms and on wet breaks kids are allowed indoors mixing in their bubbles, but basically sitting on top of each other.
I wonder if part time online learning would help to break the cycle of school infections but this will undoubtedly be unpopular and possible not feasible for some.
I wish I knew the answers and wasn't dreading returning to work on Monday.

I think that there are a few very farcical sayings that we would need to get rid of before even trying to come up with solutions.
(In my line of work the first thing we do is a problem statement. As long as the problem statement relies on emotions and assumptions we dig further to come to the real problem(s).)

I'm not going to be popular, but hey, that's life.... Remember these are generalised statements, so caveat that there will always be outliers.

1. education is effected by background and financials of the household + the educational level of the parents
2. There is already a difference in what pupils can achieve based on location and other settings. An elite grammar school pupil has more chances, better options than a low lever, barely scraping by secondary (be it financed any way)
3. Some kids are thick, some are bright. They are not all the same.

What I would have done, starting in March:

1. analyse data on pupil level after the first online term. Check for outliers and have remedy plans for them. They broadly will fall into categories like: no room, no equipment, no motivation, thick as hell. Create strategic plans on how to deal with them. Ask teachers/parents for input - google forms is easy to set up.

1. set up a flexible system. Any system with 2 options (go in/homeschool) is not flexible. These options would have been:

• go to school
• don't go in physically, but follow syllabus and get tested every month? online, do HW as others...
• create blended learning systems (this actually is the hardest and most expensive option in such a short timeframe. And adds the biggest extra workload)
• create online section of school per county/LA/region (eg Germany ecv teachers running online school for ecv kids) BUT kids would still have their places in their original school. Utilise and fund existing online schools to be able to uptake way more than they can now.

Many schools (incl. my son's) opted to "stream" classes as they were for the odd 1-2 not in person kids. It's a disaster. And they say that I should be grateful that they are at least doing something. The problem is that it's very, very counterproductive.

1. Reassess/monitor how it's going (this is called continuous improvement). Have a separate body that teachers can raise concerns to without it being legal. Eg. where a teacher can turn if s/he sees that a non-medically vulnerable kid is not doing anything online when in isolation. This body would then get the kid the laptop, or they would work with LA if it's about something more sinister, like abuse/abandonment....

1. Work together with parents!!! If a parent is willing/able to provide a baseline education then let them do this. Help them with cont. assessment to see that they are doing ok, help with providing material - at a minimum the textbook titles (I'm still waiting on the History one from our school).

1. Solve things locally. There is a framework in place, so it's not like everyone has to come up with standards from zero. Have multi tiered oversight bodies who are there to help, and solve problems and talk to each other to coordinate.

If you read the details it shows covid rates are less in school age children than adults and coming down in young adults (university age).

Looking at this data in this way is totally flawed. There are fewer recorded cases in uni students because they aren’t doing as much mass testing and finding asymptomatic cases as they were a few weeks ago.

Case numbers in school aged kids aren’t a representation of how many kids actually have it because most kids are asymptomatic or have different symptoms to those you can get a test for.

What you need to need to be looking at is the ONS random sampling data that doesn’t rely on people accessing tests, by proactively testing a random sample of the population.

I am curious about your mental health, are you coping with having to work in the school, facing your students during this climate? Noble please look after yourself.

Because you are clearly aren't. I hope that your negativity with regards to school opening have not affecting your students, who in this time of need require a strong authority figure to placate and nurture their already fragile mental state.

These year 11 kids need someone who is willing to fight with them, not someone who is afraid of their corona status.

Haha, that's amazing.

Case numbers in school aged kids aren’t a representation of how many kids actually have it because most kids are asymptomatic or have different symptoms to those you can get a test for.

Also, we're not testing anywhere near enough in schools. If the positivity % of tests is more than 5%, we're not testing enough. We know from the cruise ship situations what the positivity rates and death rates were, so we know that anything more than 5% is too much.

Many schools (incl. my son's) opted to "stream" classes as they were for the odd 1-2 not in person kids. It's a disaster. And they say that I should be grateful that they are at least doing something. The problem is that it's very, very counterproductive.

Can you please elaborate, TheSun? A lot of people think schools should be doing this so it’s interesting to hear it’s not working.

Why shouldn't we be reluctant to go into over-populated, poorly-ventilated classrooms for lengthy periods of time in this climate? It would be a particularly foolhardy person who was happy about it.

Doesn't mean we don't care about our pupils or still wish to provide the best form of teaching and learning available to us at the moment.

Oddly I'm not panicking about this. I should be because I have a disabled "vulnerable' child who could get very sick at Secondary.

Most definitely there is no social distancing going on. Kids are hugging and kissing each other and nobody stops them. But obviously even without that - there is no social distancing going on. Schools are not safe places. Not at all.

Primary round here seems to have had more cases than Secondary. But I think that's because Secondary is just ignoring them. There's kids in class coughing and ill for weeks. No one gets tested.

For a while Secondary bubbles and whole year groups were being sent home. And then it all suddenly stopped. Suspiciously.

I'm not worried because I'm in denial and don't want to think about it. If I did I'd keep my kids at home - whilst all their friends carried on going to school. And they would be 'damaged' then socially.

But it's madness sending them in and I'll regret it when they do get ill. I'll regret it massively then.

I work at my daughter's secondary school and those figures are terrifying.

We haven't had a positive case - yet - but the collective staff view is that it is of course a case of when rather than if.

That said we have largely ignored BoJo's dictats. Staff and students are expected to wear masks when moving around the school, and only allowed to remove them once seated at their desks. Lunch and breaks are staggered in terms of access to the diner and even outside areas are separated. Staff have been provided with visors to wear in classrooms and are free to wear masks all day if they are more comfortable and can work effectively. The staffroom is only open to support staff who don't have their own designated subject areas, and we've invested in, trained staff and students and tested a new online learning platform.

As a state school we have done everything we can, but I agree that a lockdown without secondary school closure is virtually pointless.

All schools and childcare settings are. Remote learning is the way to go.

The school I work in has really good arrangements - staff have worn masks since the beginning of term, students wear them between lessons - but we have had 4 out of the 5 years have to isolate at different times so far. I really don't see anything else that we could do apart from masks on 100% of the school day and reduced class sizes so students can socially distance. We have great remote learning provision in place and I have streamed kids in from home so they can listen and see the content of the lesson being taught. We are a bog standard comp, but we have made sure that all students are equipped with IT provision because we have been lucky enough to be able repurpose and refurb existing stock.

I would rather be in the classroom teaching, but this job is a very different beast to this time last year. I am most concerned about the ability of all kids to access teaching remotely, but this is because of the government's ineptitude in making sure that all students are ready for remote access. It stinks that they are making this the problem for schools.

[quote StaffAssociationRepresentative]@Hopeisnotastrategy. The windows are always open in my classroom - touch them and you are given detention. All my students understand that now[/quote]
Brilliant! I know it's not easy.

@noblegiraffe

Many schools (incl. my son's) opted to "stream" classes as they were for the odd 1-2 not in person kids. It's a disaster. And they say that I should be grateful that they are at least doing something. The problem is that it's very, very counterproductive.

Can you please elaborate, TheSun? A lot of people think schools should be doing this so it’s interesting to hear it’s not working.

Interested to know more about what went wrong. DS had this for a week when we were ill then waiting test results and it worked pretty well overall.

@noblegiraffe

Many schools (incl. my son's) opted to "stream" classes as they were for the odd 1-2 not in person kids. It's a disaster. And they say that I should be grateful that they are at least doing something. The problem is that it's very, very counterproductive.

Can you please elaborate, TheSun? A lot of people think schools should be doing this so it’s interesting to hear it’s not working.

There's the timetable. Every class has a google meet link. As per timetable my son has to sit in front of the computer and click on the link. So far so good. And here are the problems:

• some teachers open meet, some don't. And it's not even consistent with each teacher
• some open it at the start of the class, but some open it 20 mins in. and complain if son is not there. no notif is sent when a meet is being opened.
• it is almost always the desktop computer on the teacher's desk that is utilized (obv.)
• in most cases the screen shows the digital whiteboard image - which is fine.
• sometimes you can see the wall display only
• sound is horrible unless the teacher is actually at his/her desk. Many keep walking from desk to door and thus half the speech in inaudible.
• sound issue still: uk teaching (in this school very much) is focused on discussion. This "translates" to a pub feeling: nothing is audible really, but you can make out words, phrases randomly. No way to participate or even make out meaningful things.

1. my son is wasting his time clicking on the meet link every 30 sec. and not being able to do anything else, like read/study. If he is lucky the gmeet comes on soon, but in about 60% of the cases it never actually gets opened. So wasted 35 mins.
2. frustrated about point one, but if he gets in he can't really follow along as it's not reliable
3. his feeling of isolation has actually grown by hearing the others discuss things there and he can't have an input. He has a thick skin, so no long-term issues thankfully, but still not a good feeling
4. he wants to know the syllabus, wants to get on with it and feels withheld by having to go at the same rate as the rest of the class, but with piecemeal information that he then has to put extra effort to find relating sections in textbooks, reading up, etc....

It's a mess.

The school won't acknowledge there is a problem.