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Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
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SansaSnark · 01/11/2020 14:09

I do think mask wearing around school makes a difference. Zoning bubbles possibly does too (although it is tough for teachers). These are two things that could be mandated in schools without any disruption for parents.

I would like it if schools were allowed to send home students who arrive without a mask (excluding medical exceptions, obviously).

I do think my school has done as much as it can (masks in corridors, pupils in zones, staggered lunches and finish times) BUT we need to ditch the fallacy that teachers can stay 2m away from students at all times. In my tutor room, for example, there are 4 students who have to sit within 2m of the computer. And there's no way around that unless some of them sit in the corridor!

I also think there needs to be pressure on school staff to send students home and request tests, rather than the opposite. There was a stage last term where I had a lot of students with persistent coughs returned to class, because they didn't have a temperature. I did raise this with the relevant member of SLT and the policy was changed, but still.

I think if parents or politicians actually spent a day in a secondary school right now, they might have a different view of things.

EvilPea · 01/11/2020 14:13

I think if parents or politicians actually spent a day in a secondary school right now, they might have a different view of things

I doubt a politician would think it’s safe to even visit. Let alone attend each day

PollyPelargonium52 · 01/11/2020 14:14

The head of dd's secondary school emailed all families Saturday evening insisting masks must be worn entering leaving and in communal. This was already the case but the inference was parents wd be contacted and children refused entry. So they may be stepping on this. I just wish it was all day too ...

PollyPelargonium52 · 01/11/2020 14:16

Sorry ds not dd. Slip of the text.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 14:25

It is parents as well as teachers who may be at risk, more so perhaps in secondaries if the rates are higher and parents older in general (having teens) - it does expose a lot of people...

even in Russia, hardly known for it's response to covid, they are bringing in students to take over older more vulnerable teachers' roles I noticed.

www.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/14/coronavirus-students-to-replace-older-teachers-moscow

TheHoneyBadger · 01/11/2020 14:47

Not a party - a school lesson. One infected child goes into a classroom and is linked to all of those others listed.

TheHoneyBadger · 01/11/2020 14:49

Sorry I missed a page.

Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 15:16

HoneyBadger yes that is correct. Those A Level lessons with the infected pupil could have affected any of those parents (who live and work miles apart too).

3littlewords · 01/11/2020 15:25

Without any extra funds , other than making masks mandatory at all times, I dont know what else could be done without going down the part time route to enable smaller classes which in itself opens up a different can of worms making sure they are getting a full curriculum on a part time basis.

I think there's more chance of a glitter farting unicorn from Santa than any sufficient money given to schools Halloween Angry

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 15:28

Some state schools here in UK have boarding as well- they get tested at the start of term but still

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 16:42

The Times is reporting that secondaries may have to close or do rotas

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/schools-could-be-next-to-close-if-lockdown-fails-to-stem-infections-l9qczhsxc

also that GCSEs may be exams / mocks in early Spring, but would that not mean less time to prepare, as previously they were talking about giving more time and pushing exams back?

www.thetimes.co.uk/edition/news/summer-exams-set-to-be-cancelled-as-pupils-face-lockdown-rotas-2kmttw3lf

Piggywaspushed · 01/11/2020 16:45

The exams would be one paper only (most subjects have two) and be 90 minutes long, so they will have to specify content , and then I guess we carry on teaching after. Which will be fun...

It's a decent idea in principle. In practice , I ahve no idea how they will decide on the content.

But most teachers of most subjects have been crying out for streamlined content.

Devilesko · 01/11/2020 16:46

Mine has just gone back, will have been tested on entering, then before bed.
Always before breakfast so won't be mixing in the canteen if they have a temp.
I'm not sure if they'll be out and about, allowed out. I think they probably will be for walks and exercise but probably supervised.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 17:29

So you mean with one paper it may cover the work already done perhaps? I'm new to it but have a son doing GCSEs

Piggywaspushed · 01/11/2020 17:39

I think they will specify some sort of core content perhaps.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 18:05

Thanks, they need a plan anyway

PollyPelargonium52 · 01/11/2020 18:05

Can they not at least all wear masks in secondary schools before closing schools. My 15 yr old ds did not flourish in the previous lockdown and barely did any work no matter how much I encouraged him
He will fail all his gcses at this rate. Wont they want to at least trial masks worn by pupils and staff alike?

PollyPelargonium52 · 01/11/2020 18:06

Sounds a disaster to me.

MrsHamlet · 01/11/2020 18:14

@PollyPelargonium52

Can they not at least all wear masks in secondary schools before closing schools. My 15 yr old ds did not flourish in the previous lockdown and barely did any work no matter how much I encouraged him He will fail all his gcses at this rate. Wont they want to at least trial masks worn by pupils and staff alike?
They (ie the government) specifically wrote guidance AGAINST masks in schools. And there are plenty of parents on here and in the community who are very anti mask (or muzzle as some people refer to them) I'd be happy to wear a mask in the corridors. I'd be happy to enforce that. I'd be happy for students to wear masks in the classroom and enforce that. I think it would be better for me to not wear a mask when in the exposition phase of the lesson simply because some students lip read. But I'd be happy to wear a mask the rest of the time. For myriad reasons, I don't want schools to close. But we've been put in this invidious position by the action and inaction of the government.
Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 18:16

People are not only 'anti mask' there are concerns about how useful they are, also they can impede communication in education settings and be detrimental to teaching, wearing them for long periods is not easy either. May be better to have smaller classes / rotas than that. Not simple

PollyPelargonium52 · 01/11/2020 18:20

Just hope they keep at least 2 or 3 days weekly available for years 11 and 13. Ds being 15 is at the age where he doesnt like me helping him with homework anymore. He needs the stimulation of school staying open or he gets demotivated.

MrsHamlet · 01/11/2020 18:20

Agreed that rotas would be better - but people are even more vehemently anti rota, some seemingly on the basis that teachers wouldn't be working hard enough then!
There were many many opportunities for these issues to be addressed between May and September. But the government looked the other way.

MrsHamlet · 01/11/2020 18:21

@PollyPelargonium52

Just hope they keep at least 2 or 3 days weekly available for years 11 and 13. Ds being 15 is at the age where he doesnt like me helping him with homework anymore. He needs the stimulation of school staying open or he gets demotivated.
He sounds like a lot of my class 😂
Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 18:22

Sometimes smaller classes are better and could work

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 18:22

Sorry I mean work better educationally and for distancing, would be better than full closure