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Secondary schools are fucked

467 replies

noblegiraffe · 31/10/2020 11:45

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Secondary schools are fucked
Secondary schools are fucked
OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
noblegiraffe · 01/11/2020 12:05

@Judashascomeintosomemoney

let's get some long term measures put in place Oh but noble, you’ve got all the measures you need in place already. Silly. I know this is true because Michael Gove said so this morning. 🙄
He really is the git that keeps on giving.

Has he not fucked up schools enough? If he hadn't scrapped modular exams then we wouldn't have had the CAGs farce in the summer, and the impending exams crisis next year.

OP posts:
Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 12:06

MushMonster the school speaks to some health advisory people who tell them what to do in each situation. We have had at least 5 Covid positive teachers and double figures of pupils (mainly 11,12 and 13) in a school of around 1600.

What happens:
For teachers only the teacher is off because they don’t get within 2m of pupils or other teachers apparently.

For pupils: the other pupils sitting to the front, back and shoulder to shoulder get told to isolate for 14 days. This applies to every class the Covid positive pupil went to in the previous 48 hours of showing symptoms. Obviously this relies on pupils remembering who they sat next to as there’s quite a lot of shuffling round. And also that, although teachers and pupils don’t have masks on, the virus only allows itself to infect the people next to them. And that the pupils’ rather manky unwashed-for-6-weeks masks will be 100% effective on the bus, in the corridors and the crowded lunch/break area allocated for each year group where they sit on the floor together as there aren’t enough seats.
Oh and also those pupils around the positive pupil only have to isolate for maybe 5 or 6 days by the time the results come back as it’s from the date the covid pupil first had symptoms and there’s sometimes a delay getting the results.

Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 12:10

My vulnerable daughter had several A Level classes with at least one pupil who tested positive but wasn’t told to isolated as she was more than one person away. A kind teacher rang us up to tell us anyway.

MushMonster · 01/11/2020 12:13

My daughter is home for 14 days. She is in same year. Not a close contact (so the case was not on any of her smaller groups they are dividing them into, and to which they have to stick daily). The schools sends emails (when they sent her year home, phone calls were included) saying which years are isolating, and when they get back. Whole years. We are in Wales, in case that makes a difference. At least in our school are still sticking to it for the time being.
Hopefully we will get the famous quick tests soon. We may be up for a shock!

Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 12:26

We’re in the Midlands

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2020 12:26

Just seen another thread where teachers are being told to stop moaning and just get on with their jobs.

Are people actually that thick that they think schools exist in a vacuum? That the increased infection rates in secondary schools is just a school issue and not a community issue?

That the only impact is on teachers who should just suck it up?

The data in the OP should concern everyone. If there's an issue in schools and it's not addressed in any way, then lockdown will be less effective. Gove has already hinted that means it could go on for longer. No one should want that, it's in everyone's interests to fix schools.

OP posts:
Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 12:27

Oh and my post 2 up should read YEARS 11,12 and 13

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 12:29

We have a whole year group sent home (Year 11) as one of them tested positive over half term.

What about the week on / off system that was supposed to be the plan for secondaries if cases rose was it not?

Zandathepanda · 01/11/2020 12:34

What links a doctor consultant parent with a carehome worker parent (in a town 20 miles apart), with a bus driver parent with a builder parent with a parent who’s had 2 organ transplants with a parent who’s relative they care for is having chemo? One of my daughter’s A Level classes. All parents of pupils in her class that’s had at least one pupil that tested positive.

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2020 12:38

Shhh Orange, you're supposed to have forgotten about that.

OP posts:
52andblue · 01/11/2020 12:45

My kids school made them stay 9off for 14 days as their (separated) Father 'thought he had symptoms but couldn't get a test'. Now saying my Y10 has 'missed assessment slot' for catch up

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 12:46

Well, they did bring that in, I remember because it was a last minute change if cases rose, so why are they not mentioning it now. All seems dodgy.

Orangeblossom7777 · 01/11/2020 12:49

"Secondary schools will first adopt a rota system before more prolonged disruption"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53954642

"The guidance, published on Friday night, comes just days before millions of pupils go back to school.
Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said the document was a contingency plan for a "worst-case scenario".
"We hope that we won't have to implement the guidance," he said."

echt · 01/11/2020 12:49

All seems dodgy

Surely not! :o

monkeytennis97 · 01/11/2020 13:03

@Orangeblossom7777

"Secondary schools will first adopt a rota system before more prolonged disruption"

www.bbc.co.uk/news/education-53954642

"The guidance, published on Friday night, comes just days before millions of pupils go back to school.
Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said the document was a contingency plan for a "worst-case scenario".
"We hope that we won't have to implement the guidance," he said."

What happened to this eh Gav?#standwithus
StaffAssociationRepresentative · 01/11/2020 13:09

@noblegiraffe

Just seen another thread where teachers are being told to stop moaning and just get on with their jobs.

Are people actually that thick that they think schools exist in a vacuum? That the increased infection rates in secondary schools is just a school issue and not a community issue?

That the only impact is on teachers who should just suck it up?

The data in the OP should concern everyone. If there's an issue in schools and it's not addressed in any way, then lockdown will be less effective. Gove has already hinted that means it could go on for longer. No one should want that, it's in everyone's interests to fix schools.

They are the people who make up their own rules! They will also be the reason why this lockdown will be extended. All me me me stuff . Feel sorry for the impact they are having on their kids
Beebeeboo2 · 01/11/2020 13:10

Wholeheartedly agree. Schools to stay open for under 14s because

  1. Spread is higher above this age group
  2. Secondary and uni children can cope better with remote learning compared with younger children
  3. Over 14s do not need parents to stay home with them, so can work as normal
Judashascomeintosomemoney · 01/11/2020 13:18

Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said
Sorry, Gavin who? No one of that name round here......

MilesJuppIsMyBitch · 01/11/2020 13:26

@OverTheRainbow88

My children have laptops, and an educated mother with time to teach them. Plus support from their schools.

That’s a very unique position to be in.

They also have a mother with cancer who was hospitalised with sepsis earlier this year.

Just a wee bit of context for you there.

Beebeeboo2 · 01/11/2020 13:36

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/550846
For those who feel schools shouldn't close during lockdown

Beebeeboo2 · 01/11/2020 13:37

*should

ChloeDecker · 01/11/2020 13:47

noblegiraffe
Just seen another thread where teachers are being told to stop moaning and just get on with their jobs.

Are people actually that thick that they think schools exist in a vacuum? That the increased infection rates in secondary schools is just a school issue and not a community issue?

That the only impact is on teachers who should just suck it up?

The data in the OP should concern everyone. If there's an issue in schools and it's not addressed in any way, then lockdown will be less effective. Gove has already hinted that means it could go on for longer. No one should want that, it's in everyone's interests to fix schools.
They are the people who make up their own rules! They will also be the reason why this lockdown will be extended. All me me me stuff . Feel sorry for the impact they are having on their kids

That and they always conveniently ignore that fact teachers are still getting on with their jobs. We always do.
Idiots.
Doesn’t mean we can’t be vocal about the dangers (I refuse to use the word moan. Such dismissiveness there)

noblegiraffe · 01/11/2020 13:48

@Judashascomeintosomemoney

Education Secretary Gavin Williamson said Sorry, Gavin who? No one of that name round here......
The polling on this thread was quite pleasing www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/4062477-Gavin-Williamson-Secretary-of-State-for-Education-should-resign
OP posts:
ChloeDecker · 01/11/2020 13:49

@Zandathepanda

What links a doctor consultant parent with a carehome worker parent (in a town 20 miles apart), with a bus driver parent with a builder parent with a parent who’s had 2 organ transplants with a parent who’s relative they care for is having chemo? One of my daughter’s A Level classes. All parents of pupils in her class that’s had at least one pupil that tested positive.
A party by any chance!? That’s shocking.
MushMonster · 01/11/2020 13:53

Maybe the 14 days home for all or only for contacts depends on the risk factor and the local cases incidence?
No school has been on a week in week out approach that I know of yet. That will be tougher on us because mine does not have the maturity to stick to online teaching yet. And I have to be with her really to get her to do it. So I may have to switch between shifts for that.

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