Secondary schools are fucked

[noblegiraffe]

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

I agree that something needs to change around secondary schools and I don't think they'll get infection rates down as low as hopes whilst they are all in as present .

A lot of cases in local secondary school here .

What would you do though ?

Pupils in alternate days / weeks ? Allows for more distancing in schools but you wouldn't be able to online teach the half of the class that was at home if the teacher was physically in the classroom . Or maybe you could ? A video link to whiteboard so the pupils at home could see the classroom and vice versa?

Online teaching ? Works for motivates students with supportive parents who have the time to support , but causes bigger learning gaps for students that don't have this .

I would think that some level of face to face is probably ideal but there definitely needs to be more space on classrooms , face masks , staff wearing visors, maybe . Movement around the school minimised.

it is so frustrating that this wasn't thought thought through and planned properly with input from teachers from March-August.

Instead, teachers and other school staff were criticised, belittled, mocked and generally scoffed at for pointing out that this was exactly the situation that we would find ourselves in come half-term if mitigating measures weren't implemented.

@lovelemoncurd

I think the government needs to reduce the ridiculous stress on teachers and children by saying the next set of exams will be reviewed for all schools across the uk including private schools. There is simply not an even playing field being provided for children to succeed. It's putting undue pressure on children teachers and parents and it needs looking at now.

Also sack the bloody useless education minister- where is he? Anyone heard from him?

Simply saying they will review them would increase stress as additional uncertainty. If they do review them then it is the examination system they will review not schools so it would apply to private schools using the same examination system. But what of private schools doing IB etc which are not uk based and are allowed? Banning those would place those children at a disadvantage as those systems wouldn’t then set up an alternative.

I don't think anyone is talking about 'banning' public exams.

More changing how GCSEs and 'A' levels are awarded eg changes to the curriculum and ongoing assessment would seem sensible.

But not all schools are allowing their staff and pupils to be put in danger because of it.

There is so much wrong with this statement!

Shows how little is known-even by a parent who’s child goes to that school. One cannot know if rules work or are being constantly adhered to and therefore, cannot be relied upon.
All schools are different, all pupils are different, all staff a different, all budgets are different.
What decisions are made, are within the guidance provided: what the type of student body will go for, what the parents will support and what is feasible on a school site, with numbers of pupils, buildings, classrooms, numbers of staff, numbers of toilets, sizes of canteens/halls etc. and the budget they have available (some schools have a bigger budget to play with than others).
Factors such as luck, parents not being completely honest with cases, asymptomatic children and dire lack of testing being offered to children, means that it is impossible to say if a school has been or is ‘free’ of cases or not. My school has a lot of what you describe in place and yet two students ‘living together’ brought cases in, so one way systems etc. meant nothing in this instance! One way systems are better than nothing yes but I can assure you it won’t stop transmission! Being smug about no cases in a school...pride comes before a fall!

And noblegiraffe does not need to say what the procedures are at her school because it makes no difference to the point being made in the OP, so do stop goading her.

I can say with certainty that no school is allowing staff or students to be in danger. The word allowing is important here. The government is at fault here and through not checking if schools have the budget for any measures, not providing basic PPE where necessary, withdrawing funding for academic support for vulnerable children, not providing the promised summer catch up sessions and keeping guidance vague/constantly changing, they need to be held to account here, not the dedicated posters on here highlighting the problem.

Gove just on Marr, when asked if, given that rates in secondary schools are rapidly increasing, they would look at closing them, admitting that
The levels of restrictions we will impose have a limit.
When Marr asked if, in the face of continued rises in numbers, the choice is between closing schools and extending full lockdown would they close schools then? The answer from Gove was an unequivocal no, schools will remain open. He then said
I believe the measures put in place will allow us to so
What bloody measures Pob, you pillock?

So to clarify, Gove just said outright, if numbers do not reduce, the government will impose further national lockdown on everyone rather than closing schools.

He also believes the current measures in schools are fine 🤷‍♀️

he did.

I don't believe anything they say though. They rewrite facts with gay abandon.

Schools staying open doesn't necessarily mean what people might hear.

@Judashascomeintosomemoney Gove is a 🍆

Someone in the media actually mentioned the data on secondary schools? To a government minister?

Good to see the journalists are finally waking up.

They did noble. And now another journalist doing the same on my local news show. She’s asked Henry Smith MP how he thinks teachers feel being asked to front classes/year groups of multiple children every day (implication being the children might not be vulnerable but the teachers may well be). He didn’t answer. He didn’t even pretend to have an answer.

Schools staying open doesn't necessarily mean what people might hear

Schools are open even if this is only for key workers' children. I'm sure the government will exploit this at some point.

Much as they will claim that all schools are ready for online teaching, just because they, the government, have said so. And fuck the provision of laptops to pupils.

She’s asked Henry Smith MP how he thinks teachers feel being asked to front classes/year groups of multiple children every day (implication being the children might not be vulnerable but the teachers may well be). He didn’t answer. He didn’t even pretend to have an answer.

What dicks they are.

Come on teachers - don't waste this moment in the sun by talking about closing schools (deeply divisive and won't solve anything in the long run anyway because when we go back, the issues would still be there), let's get some long term measures put in place.

Thanks @noblegiraffe for another great, timely thread, clarifying the schools issue.

It's interesting that an early poster claimed that these threads usually fizzle out. Most of noble's threads reach a thousand posts, and I know because I have them on Watched.

I am in a relatively fortunate position as a shielded parent, as I managed to persuade my consultant to write a carefully-worded letter supporting me keeping my children at home.

My children have laptops, and an educated mother with time to teach them. Plus support from their schools.

Reading posts from people who claim that we're throwing children under the bus to protect 'old people' reminds me why I haven't posted on here for a while. Posters like noble make this a site worth visiting. She is clever, eloquent, compassionate and clear-sighted.

Posters who question her mental health, dismiss teacher concerns and also dismiss the lives of 'old people' are making it clear exactly who they are.

I know a lot of the above posters are in denial and are speaking from a position of fear (although, here, I know I'm in danger of adopting the patronising derailment method attempted unthread), but God, listen to yourselves.

I hope no one else does, obvs.

Government will keep schools open (even though technically many aren't) because to close them they'd have to admit theres a problem, a problem that would then require some sort of funds and action to rectify before being able to re open but for some bizarre reason they don't want to do that. So its easier just to carry on with the "schools are open and it's in their best interests for children to be there", which of course for the majority it is but the elephant will remain in the room of how we can keep them open and stop "bubbles from bursting " im starting to hate that phrase

I hate the term bubble. I teach 4 different year groups and share corridors with another one. That's my bubble at 1400 plus staff before you even add on that also in my bubble are all of the siblings, the people they share buses with, their parents, their parents colleagues etc. Realistically I'm in a bubble the size of a town.

No mention of making schools safer or acknowledgement of school staff being put at risk in the announcement. I could have handled it perhaps if they'd said schools will stay open but we will be doing random testing of asymptomatic students and staff to make them safer. But nothing

I'm worried that lots of colleagues will be off si or ill and some perhaps signed off by their doctors who know they have underlying conditions and are not safe in school (possibly with medical notes that say work related stress or health anxiety etc).

I know it's necessary and no one's fault but it makes life even harder for those of us still in school and further impacts on behaviour and safety.

It's going to be another long half term but worse because we're not even allowed to go to the gym or socialise or access family or friends support or any of the other things that might have helped us stay sane last term.

I was going to the gym or swimming several times a week for my mental and physical health and I attribute my managing the workload and stress of last term to my gym trips.

My children have laptops, and an educated mother with time to teach them. Plus support from their schools.

That’s a very unique position to be in.

let's get some long term measures put in place
Oh but noble, you’ve got all the measures you need in place already. Silly. I know this is true because Michael Gove said so this morning. 🙄

Kids need to be in school they don't need to be at home, what they should be doing is not mixing outside of their households outside of school. Same for adults, work, home, essential food shopping. The real driver of the infection rates is mixing households. People don't want to not mix with their friends and families and that is the problem. Closing non essential retail was to stop people browsing when they have not a lot else to do. Pubs and restaurants mean households mixing so it makes sense they should close. I just wish more people would stick to the guidelines and rules. Even with the stricter lockdown in March infection rates took a long time to come down to low levels.

Just one question, sorry for the ignorance. My daughters school is sending the whole year jome if there is a positive. As far as I can see in the news for the rest of the svhools around here, is the same, the whole year to isolate for 14 days. They cannot leave the house.
Close contacts are contacted and their whole household needs to isolate together.
I thought that was happening everywhere in UK? When did they start sending home only the close contacts? That is wrong I think.....

Thanks, @MilesJuppIsMyBitch, good to see you back!

Agree about the shocking disregard for the people who really have cause for concern about catching covid (many of them not 'old people' at all, and some of them working in schools). I wonder if these posters are offering up themselves or their own loved ones lives in exchange for someone else's, or merely expecting others to do it for them.

When did they start sending home only the close contacts?

When the government took control of who was being sent home from school instead of public health authorities.

For some reason, the government have a much more cavalier approach.

For some reason, the government have a much more cavalier approach.

Funny that, eh!?

I’m probably outing myself here but the DoE was still insistent with us in October, when we had 4 cases in a year group, that only close contacts (and that’s close contacts in a classroom-they were not bothered about corridors) were to self isolate. Then, two days later, on Friday evening, our Head got a phone call from PHE that the whole year group needed to SI.
It’s a scandal. No more no less!