Secondary schools are fucked

[noblegiraffe]

The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties.

The latest data for number of cases per 100,000 in each year group looks alarming, even more so when you realise that the latest column is an underestimate. The figures for Y11 in particular are horrendous, and this is a crucial exam year group.

Attendance data for secondary schools is going down each week - 82% according to the latest data (excluding those on half term).

On 22nd October an estimated 557,000 pupils were off school, either isolating, or with covid (this includes primaries, I can't see the data for just secondaries).

On 22nd October, 55% of secondary schools had at least 1 pupil self-isolating due to contact with a case in school.

There is, as far as a I can see, no discussion from those in charge about what to do about this. Schools are a priority, except when it comes to talking about them. Data is hidden, covered up or just ignored. People use arguments about primary schools (parents need to work!) to apply to all ages of pupil.

Secondary schools were set up with 'bubbles'. Risk assessments were based on premise that bubbles would be mixing, and would be sent home if there were cases. This was abandoned a few weeks into term when the DfE elbowed PHE out of the way and took over the the decisions about who would be sent home. Now only 'close contacts' are sent home rather than whole bubbles, which makes no sense in the context of what we know about covid transmission in poorly ventilated spaces with no social distancing. Kids who were told that they could mix 'because they were in a bubble' are now wondering why they're in a bubble but not in a bubble in any meaningful sense.

If, when it comes to any upcoming lockdown, the message is 'schools will stay open' and there is no distinguishing between primary and secondary, and no discussion about how this trend in secondary can be addressed, then be aware that any lockdown isn't going to solve the problem because it's spreading in secondary schools.

PS: I don't want schools to close but they shouldn't stay open as they are because the data shows there's a real problem with as they are. I do want a discussion about specifically secondary so talk about primary elsewhere. If you find the data scary then that's a problem with the situation, not me posting it. I don't want any anecdotes about how your school hasn't had any cases unless you put the word 'yet' at the end of it. If your school has masks everywhere that's great for your school, but the government says their use should be avoided in classrooms and their use in corridors is only mandated in lockdown areas. Schools are not all open in Europe.

Some suggestions: masks, ventilation, review of who is being sent home, regular testing (especially if there are cases), review of fines for pupils who would be safer at home, review of working conditions for ECV teachers, it to be made clear that if a school sends your child home they are legally required to isolate.

Because if it's possible in our school, it must be possible in yours.

That’s not how it works, sadly.

How can they fine and prosecute parents for not sending their children in?! This is fucking madness.

Because you have the right to deregister or not register in the first place.
If they are on roll they have to be in school.

I think it should be waved, but would that mean changing the education act?

you always seem so angry on your threads

Look where my anger is aimed. Posting about the situation in individual schools isn't helpful when the guidance and funding are lacking.

I could be teaching in the most covid-secure school in the country (I'm really not) and I'd still be angry on behalf of my fellow teachers, particularly the vulnerable ones, who are being treated despicably by a fat cat bunch of out-of-touch tosspots who have billions to chuck at their mates but think letting poor kids go hungry is a reasonable thing to vote for.

Even Baroness Warsi, one of their own party, let rip at them on HIGNFY last night. Selfish, incompetent bastards, the lot of them.

"The latest ONS data for infection rates in pupils in Y7-11 shows that they are now nearly as high for university students, the ones who were getting blamed for catching it at pubs and parties."

Unfortunately I suspect the real number is ALOT higher than published now in schools. The main reason we know about numbers of uni students is because unis tested vast swathes of students and found lots of asymptomatic cases. If this were to happen in schools, something would need to be done to make them safer. The option we have taken is to provide a narrow list of test symptoms- that also don't include many of the different symptoms that younger people present with.

Why did we forge ahead with opening schools at all costs when t t and t wasn't up to scratch either? So much of this spread was avoidable. School kids don't tend to live alone. The current situation is ludicrous. If schools are so important, if the economy is so important, if the nhs is so important, if we are so grateful to teachers, wtf aren't we coming up with a sensible and probably cheaper plan to keep schools open in a safer and therefore more sustainable way?

@Devilesko

How can they fine and prosecute parents for not sending their children in?! This is fucking madness.

Because you have the right to deregister or not register in the first place.
If they are on roll they have to be in school.

I think it should be waved, but would that mean changing the education act?

So

They have a right to an education

If they have a right to be educated, they have the right for it to be in a safe bloody environment. Like every bloody one else.

Many kids weren't in school from March to July and they sorted it out,

Are our kids supposed to be watching their parents die in a fucking pandemic?

Do ECV families have fewer rights than other families to education? Is that not discrimination?

Why should I have to fucking deregister my kids in a pandemic?

I genuinely feel like forcing vulnerable families in to this position must be breaking some kind of human rights law. I am asking for a few months of flexibility so I don't fucking die of covid. That isn't a lot to ask and my children shouldn't have to give up their places because they have a disabled mum. This is wrong.

The education act needs to change to reflect this.
Other laws are being changed why can't parents choose to keep their kids at home.
By having to deregister it's not only losing the child's place it's also then the responsibility of he parent to educate with no input from the LA.

I'm not sure how practical it would be for teachers though, resources for home students and school students. To include learning packs for those without printers or internet access.

@noblegiraffe

you always seem so angry on your threads

Look where my anger is aimed. Posting about the situation in individual schools isn't helpful when the guidance and funding are lacking.

I could be teaching in the most covid-secure school in the country (I'm really not) and I'd still be angry on behalf of my fellow teachers, particularly the vulnerable ones, who are being treated despicably by a fat cat bunch of out-of-touch tosspots who have billions to chuck at their mates but think letting poor kids go hungry is a reasonable thing to vote for.

Even Baroness Warsi, one of their own party, let rip at them on HIGNFY last night. Selfish, incompetent bastards, the lot of them.

I think posting about individual schools is helpful, as it shows what can be done and can therefore be used to show other schools how they might handle things better. Isn’t teaching supposed to be about learning and moving forwards?! The Heads I’ve posted about aren’t hiding behind “guidance”; they are proactively finding ways to help their staff and pupils feel safe. I’d have thought you would applaud them, and hold them up as examples of how to find a way through this mess, rather than keep repeating that the guidance is lacking and refuse - yet again - to say what is actually happening in your school.

Yes, the guidance is lacking. But not all schools are allowing their staff and pupils to be put in danger because of it.

My school SLT could easily represent on here all the measures they have taken to keep us safe. And it would sound very reassuring.

They haven't. They aren't implemented or monitored. The kids don't follow them. Nor do lots of the adults, most especially SLT themselves who don't lead by example.

I am sorry : I often don't believe someone who says their school is 'amazing' on here.

I applaud any woman who shows righteous indignation. One of the reasons teachers are walked all over and expected to be meek and compliant and self sacrificing is because we are a predominantly female workforce. Same with retail, nursing and the care sector.

This will be Monday morning in most secondary schools. During a pandemic. With a virus that spreads by people being close. This is why teachers are angry. There have been many lovely words about COVID safe schools - it's all a load of bollocks.

I think the government needs to reduce the ridiculous stress on teachers and children by saying the next set of exams will be reviewed for all schools across the uk including private schools. There is simply not an even playing field being provided for children to succeed. It's putting undue pressure on children teachers and parents and it needs looking at now.

Also sack the bloody useless education minister- where is he? Anyone heard from him?

Schools can't ask for evidence of a negative test before allowing a pupils who had symptoms to return.*
*
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Our school did.

According to the ST , word on the street is that GCSEs will be cancelled

@Piggywaspushed sorry what is the ST? Sunday Times? I am hoping the exams are cancelled, my yr11 child is so stressed. They have mocks at the end of November (unless school push them into the new year when they return tomorrow)

Yes, Sunday Times. Usually their rumours come to pass.

Obviously I would expect the mocks to go ahead whether or not the final exams are cancelled.

But it's not only their year 10 that was disrupted it's now yr11 too and I can't see this half term will be any better than the last.

However I have a child that will continue working to try and get the best grades on CAG. I can imagine that some children would just take their foot off the pedal so to speak if they announce they are cancelling them too soon.

@paintmywholehousecobweb Schools can ask, they cannot insist. So we have to trust parents will understand why we are asking and tell us the truth.

Refusing to let a student back because their parents will not show us the results of their test would be an illegal exclusion.

A lot of what schools are doing right now relies on parents/families doing the right thing. Unfortunately this half term has also shown us that some cannot, or will not do this.

@WeKnowFrogsGoShaLaLaLaLa DS had a cough so I kept him off school. The school office said he could come back with the cough if I showed them proof of a negative test. They also made me keep his sibling who had no symptoms off until test came back.

Yes, and that's right, it follows the guidance. What I'm saying is they have no power to insist. If you refused and said you were sending your child back without the test, they are powerless to stop you.

I think posting about individual schools is helpful, as it shows what can be done and can therefore be used to show other schools how they might handle things better

I started a thread about how to make a schools safer. Maybe you could go and post on that one. Or start your own thread? But you think teachers haven’t discussed this already after 8 weeks of actually being in the classroom?

Isn’t teaching supposed to be about learning and moving forwards?!

Patronising.

I’d have thought you would applaud them, and hold them up as examples of how to find a way through this mess

Patronising and insinuating I’m doing my thread all wrong. I shouldn’t be holding the government to account, I should be talking up one-way systems.

refuse - yet again - to say what is actually happening in your school.

As if you have a right to hear what is going on in my school? Wtf?

But not all schools are allowing their staff and pupils to be put in danger because of it.

Well this is just bollocks. What goes on in a classroom would be illegal anywhere else because of the amount of people and number of households in close contact so there’s clearly ‘danger’ involved however open your windows are.

@Piggywaspushed

I applaud any woman who shows righteous indignation. One of the reasons teachers are walked all over and expected to be meek and compliant and self sacrificing is because we are a predominantly female workforce. Same with retail, nursing and the care sector.

Exactly and in my experience there seems to be higher ratios of women to men in challenging schools too.

@Beebityboo

Are they actually giving fines to families in your area where children aren't in school ?

Local authority here is waiving and I had assumed that would be the case most areas .

The reason parents will be chased up / questioned around absence is to do with Safegarding.

MrsSpenserGregson surely the whole point about 'covid safety' in schools is that central government haven't mandated the same level of mitigation as in any other institution.

Nowhere else are people permitted to 30+ people from different households in one room for over an hour. If you have the luxury of windows that open, then fab, ventilate the room. If not, then tough, you still have to teach there.

Stay 2m apart to prevent the spread of the virus, but if you can't don't worry and carry on anyway.

The govt was actively discouraging any ppe in schools when they returned in September. No masks, no visors.

'Bubbles' of 100s of pupils many with siblings in different schools and travelling by different types of public transport.

No routine testing.

The relevant issue isn't what one school is doing and another isn't (and it would seem that the difference between schools with lots of closures and those with none is number of pupils and luck).

The relevant issue, and where anger is rightly directly, is at the government's complete mismanagement of opening schools and insisting that they're kept open with the same lack of covid safety.

If individual schools or even LAs were the decision-makers, many would have used the summer to plan part-time schooling/blended learning etc esp for secondary. It was blindingly obvious that there would be an increase in cases over the winter.

But schools didn't have the autonomy to make decisions right for their area, pupil cohort and staff profile, yet somehow the spread of the virus is all to do with whether on an individual level they were using enough hand sanitiser.

Why are you so keen to let the government off the hook?

And WTF is the Boy Gav in all this?