Covid measures 'a monument of collective hysteria and folly'

[RonaLisa]

The Guardian is not my natural habitat, but this is spot on.

It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

As i say, this thread could get interesting in a couple of weeks.

I always find it hilarious when people talk about the impact of the health service being overwhelmed if we hadn't had lockdown. Not quite sure about the difference between the NHS basically shutting down to non-Covid (still now) and what would have happened it it had been "overwhelmed".

@Anotherpointofview1

I always find it hilarious when people talk about the impact of the health service being overwhelmed if we hadn't had lockdown. Not quite sure about the difference between the NHS basically shutting down to non-Covid (still now) and what would have happened it it had been "overwhelmed".

In terms of emergency care I think. So if the ICU is full of covid patients and there’s no beds, people who have heart attacks or road traffic accidents won’t be able to get treated. There won’t be ambulances etc.

@RedToothBrush

As i say, this thread could get interesting in a couple of weeks.

Almost as if your wanting to be proven right...

the NHS basically shutting down to non-Covid (still now) and what would have happened it it had been "overwhelmed"

a) the number of staff deaths, and
b) the ability to any non-Covid services going at all (not even the reduced level)

I think that social distancing measures should be in place, masks, hand sanitiser etc. Definitely.
However, I think the government should put the money that would be used for lockdown into a shielding programme to protect elderly and vulnerable people. I know there are a lot of working-age vulnerable people, and measures should be put into place to help protect them.

I agree with banning large gatherings. I also think they could say something like visits to elderly/vulnerable people can only be at 2m apart and with a mask.

It is chilling to live in a world where women have to give birth alone, where it's illegal to see your own family and where care home residents may go months without visitors.

People are human and we need social contact. Somebody cracking and going to see their family after weeks doesn't deserve people shrieking at them that they're 'selfish' and a 'murderer'.

However, I don't think closing down Primark or McDonald's for 3 months is really going to have any sort of impact other than monetary. It's even worse for small businesses and shops.

I think sadly, we need to accept that some people will die of Covid. As previous posters have said, there's a certain moral relativism. People die from poverty all the time yet we happily walk past homeless people on the street.

@RajaGemini

I think that social distancing measures should be in place, masks, hand sanitiser etc. Definitely. However, I think the government should put the money that would be used for lockdown into a shielding programme to protect elderly and vulnerable people. I know there are a lot of working-age vulnerable people, and measures should be put into place to help protect them.

I agree with banning large gatherings. I also think they could say something like visits to elderly/vulnerable people can only be at 2m apart and with a mask.

It is chilling to live in a world where women have to give birth alone, where it's illegal to see your own family and where care home residents may go months without visitors.

People are human and we need social contact. Somebody cracking and going to see their family after weeks doesn't deserve people shrieking at them that they're 'selfish' and a 'murderer'.

However, I don't think closing down Primark or McDonald's for 3 months is really going to have any sort of impact other than monetary. It's even worse for small businesses and shops.

I think sadly, we need to accept that some people will die of Covid. As previous posters have said, there's a certain moral relativism. People die from poverty all the time yet we happily walk past homeless people on the street.

I agree

In answer to queries re number of deaths in Liverpool, there was no excess all cause mortality in any age group for the UK as a whole in week 43 according to surveillance reports, but there was excess all cause mortality in the North West (so it was either averaged out by less than average in other areas or was not statistically significant).

@Puzzledandpissedoff Thank You.

Shes back home and on medication. Both she and i have nothing but praise for the paramedics and hospital staff who treated her.

Shes incredibly upset that i cant visit (tier 2 but she cant stand or walk very well so meeting outside is a no no) and at the thought of Christmas being affected. I will be going there at Xmas (unless i actually have or get Covid) but there is never more than 4 of us there at any one time.
www.braintreeandwithamtimes.co.uk/news/north_essex_news/18828885.braintree-areas-removed-hotspots-map-halstead-remains-worst-hit-district/?fbclid=IwAR3JfiJAGRyqVgAbs7ROXSKG-BDmfXn4h1CSsdWY8wU8RGzmmJ--nPgFvJg

@nibdedibble

TheDailyCarbuncle, my very serious answer to that (and I’ve had a family suicide amongst lockdown isolation so I’m not being glib) is that allowing Covid to rip through the population will cause nhs overwhelm on a massive scale, it won’t help anyone’s mental health problems, services will be put on hold through illness, and eventually there will be further recession anyway.

All we have here are several flavours of shit sandwich. Nobody’s having it easy (unless it’s the recipients of government contracts but that’s another thread). Morally speaking, if there is a demonstrable direct path between opening up all our previous freedoms and people dying, do we take that path?

@nibdedibble

We shouldn't have to live restricted lives for months just to "protect the NHS". The NHS is there to protect us, not the other way around. The govt have had months to increase capacity in preparation for a rise in COVID cases. I'm sorry but your argument was valid in March/April but doesn't really hold water any more.

@Tfoot75

In answer to queries re number of deaths in Liverpool, there was no excess all cause mortality in any age group for the UK as a whole in week 43 according to surveillance reports, but there was excess all cause mortality in the North West (so it was either averaged out by less than average in other areas or was not statistically significant).

Thank you.

Are those figures compared to last year? 5 year average? 10 year average?

@Anotherpointofview1

I always find it hilarious when people talk about the impact of the health service being overwhelmed if we hadn't had lockdown. Not quite sure about the difference between the NHS basically shutting down to non-Covid (still now) and what would have happened it it had been "overwhelmed".

The NHS still treated heart attacks, strokes, broken limbs, RTA's etc etc. The way you're talking they did nothing else but treat covid. Can't believe this needs explaining.

Still unsure as to why NHS staff were making Tik Tok dancing videos back when they were supposedly 'overwhelmed'?

Not only that, it was an insult to all patients who couldn't go for their routine op, cancer treatment etc. Because Covid deaths come first.

@RajaGemini

Still unsure as to why NHS staff were making Tik Tok dancing videos back when they were supposedly 'overwhelmed'?

Not only that, it was an insult to all patients who couldn't go for their routine op, cancer treatment etc. Because Covid deaths come first.

This again! nhs staff on a 13 hour shift get a break now and again. Also at the end of a shitty shift these things can help staff deal with what they go through. The same crap line about tiktok is boring and insulting. NHS staff are human beings.

A break to make entire videos ? Hmmm. My Mum does 13 hour shifts at a care home and breaks are spent using the toilet, eating, things that she doesn't have time to do on a shift.

Whether they had the time or not, it is insulting to patients who had to forego essential treatment, it was incredibly distasteful.

@RajaGemini

A break to make entire videos ? Hmmm. My Mum does 13 hour shifts at a care home and breaks are spent using the toilet, eating, things that she doesn't have time to do on a shift.

Whether they had the time or not, it is insulting to patients who had to forego essential treatment, it was incredibly distasteful.

What a boring killjoy you sound. Thank god you are nowhere near patients

Hahaha

@RajaGemini

Still unsure as to why NHS staff were making Tik Tok dancing videos back when they were supposedly 'overwhelmed'?

Not only that, it was an insult to all patients who couldn't go for their routine op, cancer treatment etc. Because Covid deaths come first.

Yes Covid indeed came first....as in arrived on the wards and infected patients and staff. Hence the impossibility of safely treating vulnerable patients. Because of course cancer patients and in fact anyone pre and post op is extra vulnerable to infections.

The NHS did not shut down over the summer, it went on treating patients. It had a large backlog because the hospitals were almost overwhelmed with covid patients but it continued doing other work throughout the summer. You are being fed lies. It even did some non-emergency work at the height of the pandemic.

A few silly nurses blow off steam making a video - thousands of other put their own lives and their families lives, at risk for you. Yet you ignore that completely, says a lot about you and none of it good.

All the actual evidence we have is that the economy tanks when the virus runs free, control it and people spend money. Their are businesses in America allowed to stay open but closing because no-one will risk going there. There are fewer people willing to risk their health to spend money than you would like to believe.

Control the virus until there are better treatments and we have a great summer next year.

Never fails to amaze me how people have to resort to insulting other users and implying they are not intelligent/bad people/boring because their opinion of something doesn't match their own.
So actually, i'd say that says more about you.

I think sadly, we need to accept that some people will die of Covid
The Others of course...

Btw it won't be (and already isn't) some people. It's rather a lot of people. Including doctors, nurses, and other essential frontline workers. Good luck getting routine medical care with no containment of Covid. If not dead the staff will be off sick...either Covid, Long Covid, or PTSD.

Again. People can keep on trying to outdo an ostrich all they like but it won't change reality. Long Covid is a thing. A very real thing. A threat in fact. And not just The Others aka The Elderly and Vulnerable.

Heart, lung, kidney damage, triggering type 1 diabetes in previously healthy patients, blood clotting issues, neurological.

That's just what we know so far. It's still early days. Who knows what hidden damage will come to light in future years.

As for the economy. It's impossible to maintain a healthy functioning economy without containment. As is becoming apparent. Some countries had foresight. They took effective containment measures. Their lives are now largely normal and their economies healthier than ours.

@SheepandCow you missed out of the list lowered testosterone in men leading to lower libido. I wonder if men will be quite as happy about the pub session when they cant get it up. But heigh we can ignore the impact that will have on their mental health because it's just so important to do that pub crawl like this man

And Raja I didnt call you stupid - I called you the liar you are.

pub crawl man www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-manchester-54205353

The list just keeps growing doesn't it @alreadytaken.

People would be very ill-advised to ignore the potential long-term consequences of this new disease.

We know that it’s possible to get health system being overwhelmed - Wuhan, apparently places on continent are at this stage at the moment. What makes people think that won’t happen in U.K.?

Why can’t we get 2nd wave under control like Melbourne, Hong Kong, s Korea?