Covid measures 'a monument of collective hysteria and folly'

[RonaLisa]

The Guardian is not my natural habitat, but this is spot on.

It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

Professor Sridhar wrote this yesterday:

On a panel with several CEOs yesterday and their message was clear -> it's the virus impacting consumer behaviour & their businesses, not just restrictions. Already clear that controlling the virus with a clear strategy is best route to economic recovery.

And likewise, all those calling for further lockdowns are happy to sacrifice those with serious mental health problems, happy to see huge rises in suicide and self harm, happy to see people lose their homes and their jobs and their careers.

These kind of comments verge on emotional blackmail.

As if people with mental health problems have no agency and are incapable of understanding the reasons for lockdown. As if they all disagree with lockdown. As if they wouldn't understand that no lockdowns would overwhelm the NHS and so make their medical situation much much worse than it is now

Same applies to those who might lose their jobs, those scraping a living or on benefits.

Not everyone who has mental health problems or who is struggling financially agrees with your blatant covid denial agenda. In fact most probably don't

The scientific expert advising the Scottish government, Prof Sridhar, explains it all ever so well. (My bold below).

Control your virus, solve your public health problem and then you get your economic recovery If you try and do both we will just see cycles of lockdown and release

@SheepandCow. No tier 1. When she shoukd have had her last appointment in September there were 8 cases per 100,000. They have risen now but still within tier 1. It's quite unbelievable.

I'm sorry to hear that @OhTheRoses. It's worth looking into what's happened. Even if they decided face to face was too risky, she should have been offered a video appointment.

Doctors and nurses and other HCP have been doing their best to ensure patients receive normal healthcare as much as possible. Unfortunately - and this was a problem pre pandemic - there's regional variation in the quality and level of care.

Whole world reacts pretty much the same way to a pandemic.
People in the UK think it's their government at fault for doing the same thing.

@SheepandCow

The scientific expert advising the Scottish government, Prof Sridhar, explains it all ever so well. (My bold below).

Control your virus, solve your public health problem and then you get your economic recovery If you try and do both we will just see cycles of lockdown and release

Makes it seem so simple. In Scotland we had hardly any cases and then whoosh over 1000 a day

I think a young boy in NI was reported as the youngest covid death in our county even though he actually died from heart problems.

@MadameBlobby
Like Prof Sridhar says, either very strict border controls or very strict restrictions. Scotland has done more than England but still not as far as needed to fully contain. There's no national restrictions - Scotland, like England, is doing regional tiers...

And (this is a biggie) I assume Scottish airports are open with no real restrictions or proper quarantine? Also, are they keeping us English out? They'll need to if they manage to get on top of things.

@onemorerose

I think a young boy in NI was reported as the youngest covid death in our county even though he actually died from heart problems.

Covid causes heart problems.

Poor kid.

Whole world reacts pretty much the same way to a pandemic.
People in the UK think it's their government at fault for doing the same thing.

Except the whole world hasn't reacted exactly the same way - some governments have actually put in place measures which have worked. Maybe that's why some people in the UK are blaming their government.

Covidcausesheart problems.

Exactly @SheepandCow

I saw the programme about the Doctor Twins Xand and Christian I believe. One of them had a post COVID heart issue. He also visited the COVID rehab in London but of course it makes some people happy to think it just flu and Long COVID is just a bit of fatigue.
Indeed I was on a Bobby Ball thread and people were saying he didn't die of COVID as he only tested positive on admission to hospital with breathing difficulties.

It's worrying how much Long Covid is being overlooked @Northernsoulgirl45
I haven't seen that programme. Thanks for signposting it. I'm going to try to find it to watch.

In the meantime, every little helps. We can all do our bit. Prof Sridhar again:

There’s so much we can each do to still enjoy our lives safely- getting outside, ventilating inside spaces, Face with medical mask, support local shops, while also taking precautions to avoid getting the virus & passing it on. All of our micro-shifts & decisions collectively lead to larger impact.

[quote SheepandCow]@MadameBlobby
Like Prof Sridhar says, either very strict border controls or very strict restrictions. Scotland has done more than England but still not as far as needed to fully contain. There's no national restrictions - Scotland, like England, is doing regional tiers...

And (this is a biggie) I assume Scottish airports are open with no real restrictions or proper quarantine? Also, are they keeping us English out? They'll need to if they manage to get on top of things.[/quote]
Not sure about the airports at all

Travel to England is a worry. My job is based in NW England and I am meant to go there every month. I’ve been avoiding it thus far but if I risk losing my job I will need to go :( much as I don’t want to I can’t lose another job, I was made redundant a few months ago and was lucky to get this one. That’s the problem, there is the ideal and the fact life still keeps getting in the way :(

It's a horrible shit situation all round @MadameBlobby
I wish we'd taken proper containment measures early on.

I guess it depends on your work - whether it would be classed as essential travel during any lockdown.

It's all so very difficult, but I think Prof Sridhar is right. Containment is the best way to rescue the economy.

I do hope your job is safe.

Thank you. I really think my work will be OK with me not travelling but you never know do you. Until they said I didn’t have to go last month when I expressed concern, I was planning dinners of packet noodles in my hotel room to avoid the hotel restaurant!! Got to laugh or you’ll cry won’t you. My husband is in hospitality so double worry.

Hey ho. We’ll get there. :)

Anyone believing that lockdowns are a way to save us all from covid simply doesn‘t understand the complexity of the situation and I include Devi Sridhar in this. She‘s been called out on twitter when she has been wrong by people with much more knowledge than her, for example @francoisballoux and reacts by blocking. She is changing her tune recently though and has stopped the zero covid stuff and now warns about economic hardship from her well paid, safe academic ivory tower. There are other people I would trust more to take a considered approach that is sustainable long term as we have to learn to live with covid. Even after a vaccine comes it will not solve all our problems.

I wish we'd taken proper containment measures early on.

What, like Czech Republic?

@SarahMused

Anyone believing that lockdowns are a way to save us all from covid simply doesn‘t understand the complexity of the situation and I include Devi Sridhar in this. She‘s been called out on twitter when she has been wrong by people with much more knowledge than her, for example *@francoisballoux* and reacts by blocking. She is changing her tune recently though and has stopped the zero covid stuff and now warns about economic hardship from her well paid, safe academic ivory tower. There are other people I would trust more to take a considered approach that is sustainable long term as we have to learn to live with covid. Even after a vaccine comes it will not solve all our problems.

Lockdowns are needed for crisis management.

We need to understand this and how the situation hasn't been managed by other methods thus meaning the only management strategy left is lockdown

It's hard to believe that even though this crisis has been going on for only 8 months, plenty of people can't seem to remember what we've learned: left unchecked, Covid will destroy our economy and way of life. Immunity from catching it is temporary (thus heard immunity by infection is a myth). Long Covid is real and frightening and we don't have proper numbers yet on its reach and impact.

Lockdown works. It lowers community tramsmission massively and allows economies and schools to reopen (even if only for a few months). We are playing a waiting game with vaccines and treatments.

This is not killing democracy or human rights, any more than the severe restrictions during WW2 did. They were emergency temporary measures. We're still here, still voting, still debating, still protesting, still trying to help those hit hardest by this godawful situation (like the shops, cafes, and citizens providing food for children over half term and calling out the government).

Herd immunity. Sheesh.

@SheepandCow

But this is the problem isn't it? We don't know if the boy had existing serious heart problems or had a limited life expectancy anyway or if Covid directly contributed towards his death. A measure of 'death within 28 days of a positive Covid test' tells us absolutely nothing.

Very very sad for his family of course but we don't know the whole story,

I think border control and strictly enforcing quarantine for all arrival into the U.K. would be beneficial.

Local containment by requiring 14 day quarantine to enter a different region would be effective. For it to work it does depend on supporting those who require cross border travel for work purposes.

The only thing that could have been worse for me than lockdown (financially, emotionally, mentally, practically) would be one of my children dying (not specifically of Covid - for any reason at all).

What about living with the knowledge that people were being left to die when they could be saved? Or, living with the fear that if you need an ambulance it’s going to take hours, or there will be no room in ICU should you require treatment. Anyone can trip and fall and end up needing intensive care. Even you OP.

I see this kind of answer a lot on here, and honestly, its really short sighted. Yeah other people dying when they could be saved is sad. However, to someone who has lost their home, job, livelihood due to this is not going to be too focussed on other people and their possible woes realistically. Nor are they going to be too concerned about some hypothetical 'what if you needed an ambulance' when their lives are burning around them currently, and I would bet most people who have suffered badly through this would rather take their chances of not getting a ambulance were they unlucky enugh to need one..

Its about collective responsibility, I get that. But answering people whos lives are currently in the toilet with 'but lives were saved', 'you losing your home is nothing as other people have died' and such is..kind of tone deaf to me. Yet hugely common seemingly, on all forms of social media.

Tbh, going in to hospital is a sure way of catching it. I’ve read many cases of elderly people who have caught it whilst being in hospital.

Also yes to this. I know 2 older people who caught it in hospital. Unfortunately, the only reason they were in hospital to start with was because our GP surgery has been refusing to see most people since March. They have also been unwilling to prescribe antibiotics for obvious chest infections (had that one in my family..DSD now has to be scanned for possible permanent damage to her lungs because they put her off for over a month..) so these people having to go to A&E, didn't need to be there in the first place and wouldn't be if GPs actually did their job? Its a shitshow. But it seems GPs ignoring a lot of ill people is common all over currently, and that will in turn be pushing more and more people into hospitals which are high risk places. Even when the numbers were low, our GP did not start seeing people, and local operations and such were still cancelled constantly. Because covid.

Something has to give. I really don't think GPs refusing to see people is helping matters AT ALL. I understand they may be scared too, but its putting even more stress onto hospitals when many of the people having to go to A&E as their pain/illness/whatever is ignored would not be in hospitals at all if GPs would treat what often starts as a minor illness and progresses over tme as its not treated. Our doctors in A&E are really mad about the situation my sister says (she works in one of the local hospitals) as they know the GPs are just fobbing people off in the hope that they go elsewhere for treatment and thus making hospital staffs job even harder. Not a good solution, at all.