Covid measures 'a monument of collective hysteria and folly'

[RonaLisa]

The Guardian is not my natural habitat, but this is spot on.

It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

I also find it a bit odd that for months and months now people have been saying 'wait 2 weeks, the deaths will rise!'. The infection level if phenomonal now if we look at the stats, and deaths are still quite low (thankfully). There could be a few reasons for this f curse, and its probably a mix of a few reasons, better teeatments, less vulnerable people catching it (seems to be making its way round the young), potentially the virus mutating to be a bit less dangerous, masks maybe making people get lower viral loads, and so on.

We were going to have thousands of deaths after VE day. Then after beaches. Then protests. Then pubs. And so on. Leves have risen with schools, but that was always going to happen, luckily, it doesn't seem that deaths are rising too quickly like we would expect based on March, but of course theres the potential also for it to get out of hand very quickly too.

Also feel like I should say here, I am all for most of the restrictions. The only one I think it OTT and quite..nasty almost (especially for elderly people) is the no seeing family thing. Even if you can see family but only outdoors as in some places, thats harsh on many older people as they maybe not able to go outdoors!

Unfortunately, when the 'no seeing anyone outside your household at all (except for work, schl and public transport, and shopping and pubs) thing hit, near everyone I know started ignoring the rules. Well, that one in particular, the government lost control of most here with that one rule, which is hugely unsustainable long term so I don't even know why they did it really. When even the Cummings thing seemed to make not much difference to compliance round here..

No one gives a shit any more it seems. I had to do my shopping today and drove past a few places like Starbucks/garden centres/cafes and they and the car parks all looked heaving.

But then when you can’t go round to someone’s house or a pub or a restaurant there are limited places left for people to go.

@SheepandCow
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

Not caused by Covid. Tragic. Poor lad.

@MadameBlobby I agree with your comment about there being limited places for people to go. I am also inclined to agree with the suggestion of the scientists that domestic transmissions are the biggest drivers of the virus. People feel safe with family and friends and will naturally let their guard down. So to me, shutting down Covid safe gyms, restaurants, attractions etc is madness. The only place people can then congregate is domestically. Whether or not it is legal will cease to matter - they cannot send a Bobby round everyone's house every hour of the day to check who is or is not there.

[quote 110APiccadilly]@SheepandCow
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-foyle-west-54731262

Not caused by Covid. Tragic. Poor lad.[/quote]
Did you read it properly?

What a terribly sad case. The poor family are seeking some kind of comfort and want to believe it wasn't Covid. Their grief shouldn't be exploited. The doctors are clear it was Covid triggered heart damage- but perhaps the family find that hard to accept. I think they should be left alone to grieve in peace.

Covid is known to cause heart failure. He had tested positive for Covid. By the time he died the original Covid infection had gone - but sadly not the Long Covid heart damage.

So sad.

Oh for goodness' sake, that is not what the article said! He had an underlying condition and was waiting for treatment - which is the only reason that he even had a Covid test! Absolutely no one but you could possibly read that article and think this was a death caused by Covid.

Covid is known to cause heart failure.
No offence but I think I'll trust what the poor kid's doctors say over you.

amp.theguardian.com/world/2020/oct/04/long-covid-the-evidence-of-lingering-heart-damage

And if the lad's doctors had said he died of Covid, I too would believe them. They haven't. He's counted in the stats because he had a positive test within 28 days of death. For no other reason.

I'm not continuing this discussion as there's no point.

@NRatched

I also find it a bit odd that for months and months now people have been saying 'wait 2 weeks, the deaths will rise!'. The infection level if phenomonal now if we look at the stats, and deaths are still quite low (thankfully). There could be a few reasons for this f curse, and its probably a mix of a few reasons, better teeatments, less vulnerable people catching it (seems to be making its way round the young), potentially the virus mutating to be a bit less dangerous, masks maybe making people get lower viral loads, and so on.

We were going to have thousands of deaths after VE day. Then after beaches. Then protests. Then pubs. And so on. Leves have risen with schools, but that was always going to happen, luckily, it doesn't seem that deaths are rising too quickly like we would expect based on March, but of course theres the potential also for it to get out of hand very quickly too.

Also feel like I should say here, I am all for most of the restrictions. The only one I think it OTT and quite..nasty almost (especially for elderly people) is the no seeing family thing. Even if you can see family but only outdoors as in some places, thats harsh on many older people as they maybe not able to go outdoors!

Unfortunately, when the 'no seeing anyone outside your household at all (except for work, schl and public transport, and shopping and pubs) thing hit, near everyone I know started ignoring the rules. Well, that one in particular, the government lost control of most here with that one rule, which is hugely unsustainable long term so I don't even know why they did it really. When even the Cummings thing seemed to make not much difference to compliance round here..

What always seems to be ignored is the fact that in March and April, testing was very very poor - generally only people in hospital were tested and then only if they were showing symptoms. Therefore, no one had any idea how many people were actually infected - it could have been millions. When there was a lack of data due to low testing, it had to be assumed that a high proportion of people who were infected were getting very ill - ie even a few thousand infections could lead to a high number of deaths. Since testing has improved, all the evidence suggests that even with many thousands of infections, the number of very ill people is relatively small - ie the actual proportion of people who suffer badly is lower than first thought. That's a positive thing and yet there seems to still be a determination to believe that thousands and thousands of people will die if infections reach a certain level, despite there being no evidence for that and plenty of evidence to the contrary. Remember that in March, covid had been spreading for potentially three months or more (but for at least a month) with absolutely no restrictions, no social distancing, no infection control in hospitals no nothing. Deaths did reach a high peak but nothing near the apocalyptic levels predicted by models that were based on false assumptions about when the virus arrived and how many people were infected. I don't know whether the constant 'wondering' about why deaths haven't soared the way it was constantly predicted is willful ignorance or just an inability to join up the dots.

@NRatched

People were/are very angry(myself included) about Cummings Ferguson Farrier et al breaking the rules but i dont think that was the turning point that has made a few more people start questioning things. Because a lot of the public are quite desensitised to the behaviour of politicians and advisors and collectively our expectations of them are very low. I think it was incidents like what happened at the funeral of Craig Bicknell"s father that proved to be a bit of a catalyst moment.