Covid measures 'a monument of collective hysteria and folly'

[RonaLisa]

The Guardian is not my natural habitat, but this is spot on.

It needs to be shouted from the rooftops.

Steve Baker, MP (Conservative), "this is how liberty dies" - watch the video, it's compelling, chilling actually.

More and more perfectly normal, staid, establishment types are raising the alarm - something is terribly wrong and we need to oppose it before our entire way of life is changed permanently.

news.sky.com/video/sophy-ridge-this-is-how-liberty-dies-says-steve-baker-mp-12083185

@BelleSausage

Riiiiggghhht.

What do you suggest we do then? Just let tens of thousands die and the health service fall over.

It is happening. 310 deaths recorded today. And before you ask- those were COVID deaths. The counting was changed so people with positive tests that subsequently died of other things aren’t counted.

Tens of thousands died despite the lockdowns

I don’t doubt restrictions of some kind are required and no one wants anyone to die but I don’t want to live under a totalitarian regime either.

@DoorWars

I said back in feb that this would be looked on in history by socialogists and historians as a collective hysteria fuelled by social and 34 hour media

I agree

History will not judge us kindly for this episode.

The NHS already seems to be busy where I am. My son had an accident two days ago (fall from height; fractured limb) in a tier 2 area, which is currently threatened with tier 3. An ambulance was called and he was informed the wait was over 2 hours. He was in agony so called me to take him to hospital. I had to wheel him into A&E and leave him, even though he has only just turned 18 and was struggling to cope with the pain. He then waited 48 hours for emergency surgery. He was constantly texting to say the nurses were too busy to give him sufficient pain relief. Obviously no one is allowed to visit him. I know he will be ok and not everyone is this lucky, but I hate to think how it will be in another couple of weeks.

@CanIGetARefund when my DS had surgery 2 years ago (pre Covid), we also had to wait 2 days and I will always remember having to repeatedly ask the nurses for pain relief as they were apparently too busy. Sounds like nothing has changed.

This thread will be interesting to bump in about 3 or 4 weeks time.

it's already interesting - we know enough about the virus, we have plenty of evidence, plenty of data

and the numbers don't lie - the overwhelming vast majority of people who test positive for coronavirus will suffer none or only mild symptoms and even those in the most vulnerable groups are far more likely to survive than not.

I completely agree. The first lockdown lasted far too long. During the summer when covid cases where I live were 8 per 100,000 the neurodevelopment facility that reviews my dd was entirely shut. It could have operated in a socially distanced way. Review were by telephone - expect a call between 9 and 5. My step father is due to have his cataracts done (v low incidence area) but has been told his op must be put back because the bar was 50% but has risen to 70%. He has lost confidence in driving. He asked the consultant about a private procedure - evidently he could be booked in that Friday for £5k.

Society shut to support the NHS. When the NHS was not overwhelmed it didn't open up properly again for society.

The propaganda and scare mongering have been monumental compared to minimal risks for those who aren't vulnerable.

But we also know how fast infections can rise. We know from last March and we also know Winter puts a huge strain on our health system. What if we run out of beds/staff to treat those that will become I'll enough to need hospital care to survive? We know for most people they won't need medical assistance but given our population and hospital capacity that 'small' percentage could be more than what is available. I find it hard to understand how people can be so dismissive.

Of course Covid is all bollox, just like flu, everyone is over reacting, hospitals are fine and anyone who has died would have died in the next week's anyway......blah, blah fucking blah....

Meanwhile .... Manchester just opened their nightingale hospital for non Covid patients....

[quote PicsInRed]Steve Baker, MP (Conservative), "this is how liberty dies" - watch the video, it's compelling, chilling actually.

More and more perfectly normal, staid, establishment types are raising the alarm - something is terribly wrong and we need to oppose it before our entire way of life is changed permanently.

news.sky.com/video/sophy-ridge-this-is-how-liberty-dies-says-steve-baker-mp-12083185[/quote]
This also raises another point, namely that we have gone beyond party politics now. I voted Conservative all my life until Brexit (as did my parents and grandparents). My natural inclinations are centre-right. But at the moment, I'll listen to anyone, of any hue, who is talking sense.

[quote PicsInRed]Steve Baker, MP (Conservative), "this is how liberty dies" - watch the video, it's compelling, chilling actually.

More and more perfectly normal, staid, establishment types are raising the alarm - something is terribly wrong and we need to oppose it before our entire way of life is changed permanently.

news.sky.com/video/sophy-ridge-this-is-how-liberty-dies-says-steve-baker-mp-12083185[/quote]
Considering Baker previously called for parliament to be prorogued and supported it happening, he’s got a bit of a nerve to be lecturing anyone shout liberty.

About not shout!

@amusedtodeath1

Of course Covid is all bollox, just like flu, everyone is over reacting, hospitals are fine and anyone who has died would have died in the next week's anyway......blah, blah fucking blah....

Meanwhile .... Manchester just opened their nightingale hospital for non Covid patients....

It's open for routine care - people who need further assessment or rehabilitation before being discharged. It's not for ICU patients.

Society shut to support the NHS. When the NHS was not overwhelmed it didn't open up to society

I'm convinced this is where a lot of the resistance is coming from now, as in "why go through it all again when you won't be there for us anyway?" Not is there any use in government telling us things will be different in future - not after what they said about Track & Trace while selling it to a pal

Your stepfather's operation is another case in point, as is my own GP who now rarely sees his NHS patients but is offering to see them privately. Strange how all those Covid precautions can be made to disappear if there's money in it ...

Considering Baker previously called for parliament to be prorogued and supported it happening, he’s got a bit of a nerve to be lecturing anyone shout liberty.

But that's it exactly - even THIS guy is crossing the floor and sounding the alarm. That's how bad this is.

Didn't I just say "for non-covid patients"? They're so overrun with Covid patients in hospitals that they have to make room by sending non-covid patients who don't need specialist care to the nightingale hospital. Yet according to you lot it's "hysteria". You're blind to the truth.

amusedtodeath1 given that the nightingale hospitals were intended as ICU overflow your post implied that this was the reason again ("non-covid patients" can also require ICU).
Context is key. I was merely giving the full story, not the cherry picked parts.

@Purplewithred 'citizens should be treated as rational actors' etc is actually a quote from SAGE by Sumption, not something he said himself. So you obviously disagree with Sage then? I find it worrying that anyone should regard us as a sort of homogenous mass that can have our freedoms removed at will, regardless of the reason for it.

And the hospitals aren't "overrun" with Covid patients...there are less than there were back in April/May

Talking of hysteria, French President Emmanuel Macron has announced a new nationwide lockdown, claiming "400,000 people will die of coronavirus if the country does nothing in a second wave."
This is why citizens are getting pissed off. Because leaders keep plucking these figures pretty much out of thin air in order to scaremonger their citizens into complying.
It's total bollocks.

@MadameBlobby

A totalitarian regime! Are you joking?

Our rules are some of the most lax in the world- even more than in the US.

What we are living in is a fantasy land full of people who are trying to justify their holidays and socialising by pretending that no one important is dying (it’s only old people) and that they are being asked to make massive sacrifices (but I couldn’t take my kids to soft play).

See the following utterly wrong and misleading comments to steer clear of-

‘It’s not worse than the flu’
‘The numbers are over estimated. I heard of my mother’s cousins brother who was put down as COVID but died in a freak circus accident.

I wouldn’t mind people being honest about it being hard to give up luxuries (and they are luxuries) but all this pretending nothing is happening is some weird psychological thing.

It doesn't make a blind bit of difference what kind of patients are being sent to nightingale. It still means there's too many sick people, but of course this has nothing to do with Covid.

So answer me this why is the Manchester Nightingale open if the other hospitals aren't struggling to find space? Did they just open it for fun? What other reason could there possibly be?

But that’s what the Nightingale hospital is for. Open and use it as extra capacity. It would be like building an extra lane for the M25 and leaving it coned off at peak times.

Hospitals all round the country are now having to cancel operations due to lack of intensive care and trauma beds and staff off sick.
There was a good report on PM this evening about it explaining how increasing cases impacts on other hospital care.