Are we sacrificing the young to save the elderly?

[RubyandBen]

Reading another thread where someone was accusing the OP of wanting to sacrifice the elderly re CV. But the longer this goes on the more education and the economy are screwed is it actually the other way round?

The children and young adults will be fine in the long run

And just how long is your ‘long run’, @TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince, especially once we add in Brexit and climate change?

Will the elderly be helping our children’s generation to rebuild our shattered economy and cultural life once this is all over? Or will they, like my own parents and their friends, continue voting endlessly for the Tories to preserve their triple lock pensions?

No.

Lots of people are making sacrifices to help lots of other people. That’s how society works.

OP, this is the fourth thread that you’ve started in the last few days, all asking ingenuous questions about the covid situation. We understand that what you really mean is “I don’t like this and I want it to stop”.

Children are in school. They are being educated and socializing. What are they sacrificing? I mean truly? I have one DD, lockdown was hard because she was on her own for 6 months, now shes at school I have absolutely no worries at all about her. I want schools to stay open no matter what. School is where she gets 90% of her social interaction with other kids and when she's home we have family time and that's a nice balance.

Some, not all, of the elderly are living in fear for their lives. They are trapped in care homes with restrictions or lonely in their homes, scared to socialise, scared to go out. I know not all are scared and some just fly in the face of Coronavirus but some are really terrified.

I can't see how we are sacrificing too much? I find that incredibly cold.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

‘So many people on here want to curtail everything the young have. Schools, universities, socialising’

Yeah because they are mean and selfish obviously. Nothing to do with a pandemic, where we all have to work together to mitigate it.🤔

If you want to keep your dc in the house go for it. The option is there.

Yes 100 percent

Not all elderly people are like that.

My mum bless her if she was still alive would not be like that. She was a feminist, a socialist and went to Greenham Common. Not all parents are like yours.

I’m a parent to a Millenniall. I have no money, little pension and vote Labour. I don’t k ow anyone like your parents, it’s your parents that are the problem, not their generation.

I don’t ‘keep’ them in.

They are old enough to make their own decisions. They choose to stay in to protect other people.

I dont think anyone is saying there shouldnt be restrictions or that we should let the virus run riot through the population.

Actually that was exactly what Dominic Cummings the PM’s chief strategist and UKs chief scientist were saying in March at a time when China was locking down a 50 million province and Italy was on its knees. We’ve got some right weirdos running the U.K.

I am curious as to what you think those at the end of their careers would do if you let Covid rip.

I am talking about, medical consultants, senior people in business, many teachers (married to wealthy people or with a previous career behind them) etc, all of whom could comfortably afford to retire.

Would they risk infection and possible death or call it a day? How do you think the economy would cope if all the well off 55+ withdrew their labour to ‘shield’.

Do you also really think schools could remain open with many staff sick?

Free Covid would do far more economic damage than limited lock downs.

I haven't read the whole thread but, at the risk of repeating someone else, it's not just the elderly that are vulnerable. I am 65 and fit and healthy my daughter is the vulnerable one de to health conditions and she has four children to care for.

I am not particularly in favour of eternal lockdown but the mitigating measures such as hygiene, masks, distancing etc need to be more strictly adhered to with appropriate punishments for those that refuse to do this.

Yes absolutely. It’s feeling increasingly unfair and I feel less and less inclined to comply. Don’t blame young people at all for not following the rules. A lockdown didn’t work last time and it won’t work now. I am beyond exasperated that this is now what people are calling for

Yep, 💯

@Croleeen

Absolutely. It's crazy. The average age of a COVID death is 82. The average life expectancy is 81.16. I'm not saying death after 82 doesn't matter. My mum just turned 86. But would she expect us to give up the best part of our lives, going out, travelling, seeing friends, just to give her a couple more years at that age? Absolutely not. Anyone who has watched the David Attenborough documentary saying humans have overrun the planet because we have become too good at combatting disease among other things should realise how ridiculous it is to stifle our economic growth and the happiness of young people to ensure there are as many people kept alive as long as possible. The world has gone mad.

This attitude scares me far more than anything else. The cheapening of human life because we can’t face making hard or different choices.

You might as well advocate for a culling.

There are solutions for addressing interruptions to education. Extending the period of learning is an obvious one. We are too blinded by age based advancement and attainment. Not everything has to done by 11, 16 or 18.

Why can’t all ages just adhere to the advice and guidance and laws to the benefit of all groups in our society?
If protecting the elderly means younger people can’t go out on the piss I hardly think that’s an unreasonable request

@Trackandtrace

No restrictions equals the virus spreadung out of control. This will lead to hospitals becoming overun and people unable to recieve medical treatment for covid, falls, RTC, heart attacks, cancer, stroke, flu and anything else. Huge numbers of employees from every sector off sick with covid... meaning shops not properly staffed, distribution and delivery nit at normal levels l, production of goods not at normal levels meaning a lack of goo available even if shops are open. NHS staff off sick meaning the medical care is further compromised. Fire service with staff off sick meaning fires, RTC become more risky to life and property. Police service with staff shortages crime rises with no consequences. Utility companies with staff shortages, cant be maintained or repair problems as quick as normal so people without utility for longer than normal.

Yes lets do that that will be better for the youngsters

This!

But you know, let the kids socialise cos that's most important FFS

@FieldsAndSun

Children are in school. They are being educated and socializing. What are they sacrificing? I mean truly? I have one DD, lockdown was hard because she was on her own for 6 months, now shes at school I have absolutely no worries at all about her. I want schools to stay open no matter what. School is where she gets 90% of her social interaction with other kids and when she's home we have family time and that's a nice balance.

Some, not all, of the elderly are living in fear for their lives. They are trapped in care homes with restrictions or lonely in their homes, scared to socialise, scared to go out. I know not all are scared and some just fly in the face of Coronavirus but some are really terrified.

I can't see how we are sacrificing too much? I find that incredibly cold.

Its not just about 6 year olds being able to play at school though is it? Its about young people not sure if they'll be able to do exams, not sure if they can go to uni, not sure if there will be any jobs left for them at at the end. Their life quality and prospects are being shattered for decades. They are making huge sacrifices for a virus that largely isnt going to harm them personally.

Whether its right or wrong for society as a whole is a separate issue, but surely no one can dispute the young are being personally asked to make a massive sacrifice?

So those who think we are sacrificing the young to save the elderly. What is your solution to the hospitals being full of Covid patients ?

Remember the following:

The current average age of death is 82 because those younger are being treated successfully. Without treatment it would be a lot lower.

It is not possible to keep hospitals entirely Covid free once it is present in these numbers.

It is not possible shield the vulnerable and those over 50 (or whichever age you pick) without services completely breaking down.

Genuinely interested in answers.

Ffs. Yes.

The ignorance and ageism of this post and many of the responses is shocking. Shame on you.

Do you know the average age of patients in ICU fighting covid was nearer to 60. To get to that figure there will be many people aged below and above 60.

@Figgygal

Why can’t all ages just adhere to the advice and guidance and laws to the benefit of all groups in our society? If protecting the elderly means younger people can’t go out on the piss I hardly think that’s an unreasonable request

For how long are they expected to put their lives on hold though?! Until the magical unicorn vaccine appears?

Because what if the vaccine never comes? Are young people just supposed to rot away in their parents houses, to protect the elderly?

The young are facing a horrific economic burden that will continue for a very long time. They are also about to get shafted up the bum by BREXIT, which was voted for disproportionately by the elderly.

At the very least, there needs to be some serious gouging-out of pensioner wealth after this. No more triple-lock. No more freebies other than for actual poverty pensioners who have jumped through means-testing hoops. Some real action on the housing market.

Follow the rules yes. So rule of 6, outside etc. But school is a big deal for them

If dc / parents are fine with homeschool there is that option for yours that want to stay in

Those

@Kokeshi123

The young are facing a horrific economic burden that will continue for a very long time. They are also about to get shafted up the bum by BREXIT, which was voted for disproportionately by the elderly.

At the very least, there needs to be some serious gouging-out of pensioner wealth after this. No more triple-lock. No more freebies other than for actual poverty pensioners who have jumped through means-testing hoops. Some real action on the housing market.

🙌🏻

Juststopswimming

Fair enough, 'young' is a broad term and I do agree the 18-25 year old bracket is taking the brunt of this pandemic. I don't know what the answer is for them. I was thinking the other day how were they allowed to do face to face lectures when the advice from Sage was that all lectures should be online unless absolutely essential...but then I thought what would they do if they didn't go to university and stayed at home? I mean they would still want to go out and live their lives...I really don't know what is the answer for this age bracket...