Is Lockdown generally something favoured by those who are generally left of centre/public sector?

[Treesofwood]

I would say I am definitely left leaning, and am also not in support of lockdowns as a strategy. Infact in some of my dealings on here I have been accused of being pro brexit, hard right. Why would that be? Can you be left wing and pro freedom or are the two actually mutually exclusive? And what does Brexit have to do with any of it?

I'm left leaning, public sector and definitely NOT in favour of stricter lockdowns. I have many friends of broadly the same persuasion and none of them are in favour either.
IMO lockdown didn't work the first time when everyone was on board with it, so I see no reason why it will work this time, when people's patience is wearing thin.

@sashagabadon prejudiced much? I live in a middle class area, all my local friends are middle class, and only one is pro lockdown. We are Waitrose now, not Ocado. Our local pubs are full of young urban type. Many older people are anti lockdown, especially those of a Tory affiliation.

I wouldn't be able to generalise at all which political tendency or demographic are pro-lockdown, I think it's a mixture to be honest. Many are for personal reasons.

Restaurants are not a driver. It's family transmission, where people do everything at close quarters: talk, use the same bathroom and towels, touch the same things all the time, sit together on the sofa etc etc. And schools, of course, although it's difficult to track transmission in children as they are overwhelmingly asymptomatic.

Poor old restaurants and pubs are trying very, very hard with new systems. As are hairdressers and other small businesses. Yet people are mixing households with gay abandon.

Track and trace is no good at all unless people play ball. Apparently only 1 in 5 (I think I read) are downloading it and offering up information on where they've been and who they've seen.

Students pro-lockdown?! Er, no.

I don’t think it’s a question of left or right. I would have said I was a Tory before this but I am pro whatever it takes to control the virus. Not that I want the restrictions but if people could follow the rules we will be over it quicker and back to normal.

I have a private sector job but can do it from home, although I have been pretty much forced back into the office some of the time and don’t feel at all safe there. People do not respect personal space, let alone social distance. I am a lone parent so need to work and don’t feel at all happy about this but also don’t think I can say no.

I just want it all over without hundreds of thousands of extra deaths. There doesn’t seem an easy way. Not at all.

The people who can’t be bothered to protect others are showing a very nasty streak in human nature. Some young people don’t care if they think they won’t get it. Much as many people in Germany turned a blind eye to their Jewish neighbours being rounded up and taken away. We are a community and everyone has relatives of all ages. We don’t have euthanasia in this country, older people still matter and are loved.

I am also worried about the economy and our kids’ futures and education. But the quicker we control this the quicker it will recover. I do have savings and I’m not living hand to mouth but I have done in the past.

The left wing students are! The pro Corbyn types. The more regular students out partying less so I agree

[quote QueenBlueberries]@sashagabadon prejudiced much? I live in a middle class area, all my local friends are middle class, and only one is pro lockdown. We are Waitrose now, not Ocado. Our local pubs are full of young urban type. Many older people are anti lockdown, especially those of a Tory affiliation.

I wouldn't be able to generalise at all which political tendency or demographic are pro-lockdown, I think it's a mixture to be honest. Many are for personal reasons.[/quote]
I did say I was generalising.
I have plenty of mc wfh friends and neighbours that had a lovely time in lockdown, saved a fortune and are quite happy for it to continue. Those people exist and there are a fair few of them

I agree. I remember all the Smuggy McSmugfaces going on about "quality family time" and bloody baking and how their dc were "flying" doing home school. Gosh, that "flying" term is soooooo irritating!

I’m centre left
NHS nurse nearly 30 years. This year has been hideous.

Lockdowns are not the solution.
A 2 week lockdown won’t break transmission.

3 months earlier this year didn’t eradicate the virus.
Most of the world won’t be vaccinated until 2022.
Vaccines don’t work well on older people.
People are losing their jobs and livelihoods left, right and centre, the resulting poverty causes illness and death.
The young and poor will bear the brunt of lockdown. Those with the least to fear from the virus will bear the highest cost.
There is non compliance now, as seen in the Liverpool streets last night. We can’t ask people to lose their jobs while others are going to ignore and party.

I was wondering the same thing.

I'm very left leaning and don't support another lockdown. I was worrying about this last night and wondering whether I was becoming selfish and more conservative in my old age.

But honestly, I feel lockdowns will lead to more suffering in the weakest, poorest and most vulnerable parts of society than Covid will.

Great post iheartNiles I agree with everything you say.

We have a labour government in Wales. I am in a local lockdown area and can’t leave my County. The end of my lane is a different County ! The Lockdown is harsher than the English lockdown and they keep asking Westminster for bailout money. If they had to fund it there is no way they could. So I think lockdown under a Labour Westminster government would have been harsher for longer and sod the Economy.

Those of you who are anti lockdown, what do you think the economic impact of allowing the virus to spread will be? Do you think that most people will continue going out to shops and pubs and restaurants if there are so many sick people that they have refrigerated vans acting as temporary morgues and hospitals collapses has happened and is still happening in parts America?

What impact would a healthcare system collapse have economically?

I am a healthcare worker. I’m dreading this winter. I’ve already had coronavirus myself which whilst unpleasant at the time does mean I am less anxious about catching it again at least for a few months. I don’t want to see my patients suffer. I don’t want to try to deal with increasing poor staffing. We’re short staffed now and it will get worse if more people get sick. I want to be able to do my job and give people the care they should be entitled to and not just the best we can pull together with a lack of staff and a sicker caseload.

I don’t know what the solution is because lockdown is awful and is harming people too. Maybe a decent track and trace would work combined with pooled testing in schools and workplaces to focus testing where it will have the most effect. But what we have is not working at all clearly.

I just don’t believe that lockdown is what’s fucking the economy. It’s the pandemic. I think I read something that said that in the Spanish flu pandemic areas that locked down harder ended up economically better off.

I'm politically left leaning, and I am a public sector worker, and I'm not in favour of a hard lockdown

I don't think you can say left are pro-lockdown and right are anti-lockdown, as i said before it comes down to libertarian/authoritarian views that can be found all along the left-right spectrum

A good example is the reason why more of the northern towns aren't in the highest tier - their left-wing councils and mayors won't agree to further restrictions.

It is not the left/right wing spectrum, it is the libertarian/authoritarian spectrum.

Plus of course science vs economy.

Sage are presumably slightly right-wing rather than slightly left-wing (since they are not strictly independent, but appointed by the government) and Sage are pro-lockdown (short).

SheepandCow

How come then @Oliversmumsarmy the most enthusiastic anti lockdown groups are wealthy right wingers

Pensioners aren't one homogeneous group. Plenty are very far from wealthy, but in any event they don't have to risk their lives going to work. No wonder some, particularly the more affluent, don't want lockdown. They're already able to lock themselves down

Anyone worried about having an income coming in (who can see beyond next week) wants effective measures taken to contain the spread. Except the rich, who can afford to ignore it and hide themselves (and their assets) away during the worse of it all, economic damage included

I can only speak for my family and those we know through work and friends whether they are rich or poor or lean towards the right or left.

No one wants another lockdown.
No one has downloaded the T&t app.
The people we work with have lost so much because of the last lockdown. We aren’t in the section of society who can wfh and we aren’t in the section of people so can claim SE furlough scheme.
Mortgages/rent/council tax/water/gas/electricity/insurances etc all still need to be paid each month. They don’t stop because your income has.

The comment about “people seeing beyond next week”. You do know that a lot of people can’t see beyond next week. Any savings they had were ate up in the last lockdown
which didn’t put an end to this virus over 3/4 months so why would 2 weeks more make a difference apart from slowing it down for 2 weeks and then letting it grow again till we need a further 2 week lock down.
People weren’t adhering to the lockdown last time so what makes you think people will this time?

The pensioners I know want to live a life. They are willing to risk their life going to work. They want to see their families, they want to go out and see friends for coffee.

They know that they might have only a few years left and don’t want to spend it looking at 4 walls. Unable to see the people they love and are more worried about dementia and senility setting in because if their lack of social interaction than they are of this virus.

worried I think it’s clear that people are no longer scared and whatever the government allows to open, people will go.
As soon as hairdressers opened, people had a hair cut.
As soon as pubs opened, people went for a drink.
I was in Nottingham on Saturday (Covid capital) and couldn’t book the restaurant we wanted (it was full). Couldn’t get a seat in a coffee shop. I have no doubt that if Ocean were allowed to open the students would be in there dancing and laughing.

@WorriedNHSer

Those of you who are anti lockdown, what do you think the economic impact of allowing the virus to spread will be? Do you think that most people will continue going out to shops and pubs and restaurants if there are so many sick people that they have refrigerated vans acting as temporary morgues and hospitals collapses has happened and is still happening in parts America?

What impact would a healthcare system collapse have economically?

I am a healthcare worker. I’m dreading this winter. I’ve already had coronavirus myself which whilst unpleasant at the time does mean I am less anxious about catching it again at least for a few months. I don’t want to see my patients suffer. I don’t want to try to deal with increasing poor staffing. We’re short staffed now and it will get worse if more people get sick. I want to be able to do my job and give people the care they should be entitled to and not just the best we can pull together with a lack of staff and a sicker caseload.

I don’t know what the solution is because lockdown is awful and is harming people too. Maybe a decent track and trace would work combined with pooled testing in schools and workplaces to focus testing where it will have the most effect. But what we have is not working at all clearly.

I just don’t believe that lockdown is what’s fucking the economy. It’s the pandemic. I think I read something that said that in the Spanish flu pandemic areas that locked down harder ended up economically better off.

No-one will engage with this. It’s as though people can’t envisage a collapse of the health service, and can’t imagine a scenario where a significant proportion of people are too sick to work.

We shouldn’t have to be talking about lockdowns, but we’re led by donkeys.

Do you think that most people will continue going out to shops and pubs and restaurants if there are so many sick people that they have refrigerated vans acting as temporary morgues and hospitals collapses has happened and is still happening in parts America?
Thing is, the evidence (where I live in any case) does not support the assertion that bars and restaurants are hotbeds for spreading the virus. Quite the opposite in fact - in the last two weeks (at least) bars and restaurants have been at the bottom of the list for transmissions outside the home. As a PP said, the likes of pubs and hairdressers have legally had to put stringent measures in place to protect the public and IME most have done so, and it seems to be largely effective as long as it's followed properly.
I honestly think people just properly following social distancing rules, masks and hand washing, alongside properly managed and enforced test and trace and a govt support package for shielding the vulnerable would be the most effective way forward.

Yes I do think people will keep going out. We are already seeing that

People don’t seem so afraid now - life is a risk and for most people the risks are low. I’m happy to risk long covid. My parents are elderly and are taking the risk too.

We aren’t foolish. We are middle aged and my parents relatively elderly. But none of us can see the point of kicking a covid can down a long and depressing road

Those who want a lockdown are perhaps those sensible enough to see that places that control the virus have less economic damage. People are not out spending money if they realise it's going to make them ill - with 30% still suffering breathless after 2 months and 40% of them still with fatigue. And of course some will die.

Controlling the virus means less economic pain. Lockdown is sometimes necessary. The "libertarians" who wont wear masks or wont wear them properly and wont keep their distance are causing economic damage.

I am not pro-lockdown but that's not because I don't care, it's because what we really need is for track and trace to actually work properly.

We can't go backwards in time so we might have to have a lockdown and I accept that. But no, I'm not pro it. It will damage the poor and vulnerable. So does Coronavirus. I'm not pro either option.

I am resigned.

People who've nothing to lose from entire industries being wiped out, support it because they think they're safe from the fallout.

The initial lockdown was necessary because we didn't know what we were dealing with, weren't prepared and certain cultural changes needed to be made to stop the spread. Now that's done, we need to get to a new normal.

One that's conscientious about hygiene and germ spreading. We need to take precautions to protect vulnerable members of society but we must also remember that we are a society. We need common sense and humanity.

It's not OK for cancer patients to not have treatment. It's not OK for vulnerable people to be isolated from family, friends, neighbours and the community. It's not OK to collapse the economy and cause mass poverty.

Far more will die from stress, isolation, poverty, civil unrest and lack of necessary medical treatment than could die from covid if we allow the chicken littles of the world to collapse everything in fear of a virus that kills people who are mostly over eighty.