Is Lockdown generally something favoured by those who are generally left of centre/public sector?

[Treesofwood]

I would say I am definitely left leaning, and am also not in support of lockdowns as a strategy. Infact in some of my dealings on here I have been accused of being pro brexit, hard right. Why would that be? Can you be left wing and pro freedom or are the two actually mutually exclusive? And what does Brexit have to do with any of it?

*quarantine
*be normal

I've been very surprised by the lack of vigorous left-wing opposition to lockdown. I'm a left-of-centre floating Labour/Lib Den/ Green voter. I agree with many of the arguments about the long-term economy but it's the immediate impact of lockdown on the poor, vulnerable, and those ill with diseases other than covid that terrifies me. I also find the nation-state-monocular-vision aspect of lockdown policies depressing, because I don't understand why I should care more about an 80 year old in a care home in Northumberland than a hungry 10 year old in Africa. I don't know either of those people. I feel human sympathy for both, but I don't have more sympathy for someone because they're British.

A friend told me that in Nigeria (where she was born, and all her family live) Covid-19 is seen as a disease of the rich, a sort of decadent health problem like obesity and gout!

You could imagine a 2x2 matrix plotting benefit from lockdown (high or low) against cost of lockdown (high or low). There are a lot of people in the high benefit / low cost box (those Tory pensioners in their lovely houses on their big pensions) and a huge number in the low benefit/ high cost box (almost all healthy people under 40). I think this tends to ossify political debate, because those with something to gain have little appreciation of the sacrifices involved, and those making sacrifices have so little personally to gain. But because about half of the people in the low gain/ high cost box don't have the vote, and v few of the others have an influential voice in public debate, I think this group is not being well represented. Look at the cabinet/ constituency of SAGE. They're almost all much older than the median age, as well as being richer and more privileged.

I would put myself in the low gain/low cost box, because I'm young enough not to be worried about the illness (and already have antibodies) but old enough to have a fairly small mortgage and a very stable income. But my children are in the low gain/ high cost box, as are my students, so I sympathise with that position. I know only one person (very vulnerable teacher) in the high gain/ high cost box and perhaps this is the smallest?

I think one of the worse things about the whole debate is the disingenuous 'concern' for the poor and vulnerable - who of course are at far higher risk of becoming seriously ill or dying from Covid. And guess what? It's also the poor and vulnerable who will suffer the most from the economic fall out of failing to contain Covid.

It's also the 'anti lockdowners' who are the reason we now need more (and longer) restrictions.

One strict and therefore shorter lockdown is all that's needed. With border restrictions.

Can you be left wing and pro freedom
😂
You’re right, you are left wing!

@hopsalong
I'm not sure where in Nigeria your friend's family live because Nigeria most certainly didn't dismiss Covid as 'a disease of the rich'. They locked down - including border restrictions.

Many African countries have done far more than us to contain it. They took strict measures - shut down hard and early.

Covid is an issue everywhere. I doubt India, for example, sees it as a rich person's disease. Not with their high number of cases and deaths.

Lockdown is certainly supported ime by middle class people with happy families who can all work and school from home.

So long as they can still get their Ocado delivery and Friday deliveroo and so long as the plumber can still come to fix the boiler.

Lockdown makes no difference to the front like workers who can’t stay at home regardless. But supporting it does make mc suburbanites feel better about themselves.

Lockdown makes no difference to the front line workers who can't stay at home
Oh but it does. Hugely. As many have pointed out on other threads, they don't want to increase their risks by encountering unnecessary additional people out and about.

Our experiences must differ. Ime it's the middle class Ocado customers who are most in favour of risking the lives and livelihoods of the poor. Afterall the middle-class tend to live in less affected areas, in good health, away from crowded high density housing. They also have a cushion of savings to get them through the economic fallout of their gamble.

Those on the sharp edge (including some middle class, i.e. doctors) know it's the refuseniks who are leading us to longer and repeated restrictions.

Middle-ish tory here, I think they should Have been doing the RAG status weeks ago. Also should have done original lock down earlier.

Not massively keen on lockdown but ok with it if necessary. Otherwise keen to follow the rules and go out and spend.

I an against lockdowns because I think it's a precursor to fascism frankly.

Thinking about it. It's easy to fall into a media encouraged trap (they do love a bit of division!).

I don't think it's as simple or binary as left v right, or middle-class vs working class.
It's more a case of foresight vs short-termism.

@Mimishimi

I an against lockdowns because I think it's a precursor to fascism frankly.

Really?? I'd have thought, rather than necessary temporary measures to contain an infectious virus, casual dismissal of the poor, elderly, and disabled is more analogous with fascism.

No.

I think those that do favour lockdown are those that have income whether that be Tory voting pensioners or left wingers who work from home.

The rest of the population whether left, right or straight down the centre are too worried about getting an income coming in.

How come then @Oliversmumsarmy the most enthusiastic anti lockdown groups are wealthy right wingers?

Pensioners aren't one homogeneous group. Plenty are very far from wealthy, but in any event they don't have to risk their lives going to work. No wonder some, particularly the more affluent, don't want lockdown. They're already able to lock themselves down.

Anyone worried about having an income coming in (who can see beyond next week) wants effective measures taken to contain the spread. Except the rich, who can afford to ignore it and hide themselves (and their assets) away during the worse of it all, economic damage included.

We all know the countries who've taken action to contain Covid now have better functioning healthier economies.

(Disclaimer: I am a political centrist on most matters, including corona)

What I find really weird about the general "left wing = more in favor of lockdown" thing is: the left's usual concern about immigrants and minority groups appears to have melted away like snow in a heatwave.

My FB feed is full of very very left wing people who want to lock down and close schools for ever and have a real hard-on for New Zealand. They don't seem to have a single thought for the fate of immigrants who may not be able to see family for years, for migrants trapped in foreign countries with no jobs and with their money rapidly running out, or for immigrant families trying to homeschool when neither of the parents is a native speaker of the language spoken in the country at large.

I would say I’m bored of stereotypes in general.

Or after ten years of austerity, much of the public sector is already completely inured to pay freezes and restructuring/redundancies. I wouldn’t call a 38% cut in council funding “well-cushioned”.

I love the way public sector workers talk about pay freezes like they’re in any way equivalent to the large scale redundancies you see in the private sector.

It's more a case of foresight vs short-termism.

I actually can’t believe I just read that.

Strange that there is a perception that public sector jobs are more secure. I do a job which can be done both in the public and private sector and have worked in both over the last 30 years. Public sector is definitely less secure and harder work with longer hours and worse pay and constant threat of redundancies. Added to which we had to work during lockdown and staff died. Private sector were furloughed.

Where does the idea come from that public sector work is cushy and public sector workers are in favour of lockdown?

Where does the idea come from that public sector work is cushy and public sector workers are in favour of lockdown?

It is true that there have not been mass redundancies in the public sector . There are also not entire sections of the public sector which no longer exist. If you work in hospitality or entertainment in the private sector you are royally screwed these days.

I’m watching a lot of down grading in public sector jobs and redundancy threats, the down grading is being sucked up & hushed up due to the theory of better to have a job than not

I'm interested to see all of the comments about "Tory retirees wanting lockdown" when I've come across plenty who would rather spend their remaining years with their grandchildren than be lonely until further notice.

I’m very left wing, work in a large secondary, and I want a lock down because my school is like a cruise ship. Cases are doubling every three days. I’d rather we shut before everyone was infected than shut because everyone was infected, but trust me, one way or another, we’re going to shut. Lock down, shut down, you’re arguing about semantics, that’s the truth of it. The question is, do you want some semblance of order to your inevitable closure, or do you want chaos?

I think there are too many factors. It’s not even true that anti-Brexit is solely left wing.

The people I know clamouring for lockdowns are smug fuckers, with nice pensions and a garden. “We can always rebuild an economy but not lives” they proclaim with zero bloody understanding of the bigger picture.

I think I’m generally mid centre on many issues but I was pro Brexit (gasp - on MN) and I’m anti lockdown. I’m utterly politically homeless

@notevenat20

Where does the idea come from that public sector work is cushy and public sector workers are in favour of lockdown?

It is true that there have not been mass redundancies in the public sector . There are also not entire sections of the public sector which no longer exist. If you work in hospitality or entertainment in the private sector you are royally screwed these days.

Disclaimer: depends which part of the sector we're talking about, but - local government redundancies are unlikely to happen until April (or the next April) because of the way wages are funded by Council Tax. That doesn't mean they won't happen.

There are also absolutely entire sectors of the public sector which have been decimated by funding cuts across the country and number of staff hugely reduced. Trading standards, libraries even environmental health.

That wasn't directly caused by Coronavirus but it's likely to continue unless the funding deficit is addressed. Local governments are also loosing out on usually steady income streams and are legally responsible for large numbers of core services including social services and social care, schools and roads. All of these will see further cuts when the budgets are already very marginal.

I live an area where the County Council has been bankrupt for several years now. It's grim. Nothing gets repaired until it's well past the point of being dangerous and someone makes a big public fuss. I am grateful not to have any elderly relatives in their care.

Wow people are desperate to put other people into neat boxes here aren't they? The left, the right, middle class people, pensioners, the poor, the public sector each apparently think identically to everyone else in their box .

I don't think it's anything like as easy to pigeon hole people. And there are literally no easy solutions to this problem. We were told that the first lockdown was intended to address the lack of preparation for the pandemic, slow down the spread to allow the NHS to get prepared with PPE, ventilators etc, get a functioning track and trace up and running and to protect older people.

The government signally failed with track and trace and seem to be floundering to know what to do. There seems no clear strategy and policy is decided on the hoof and seemingly ideas floated to see how things go down with the public before implementing them.

Lockdown locally seems to have failed to stop the spread in those areas, so I am sceptical that we can stop the spread at all, even with full lockdown because people just flout it anyway. If people weren't flouting it I don't know how it could have continued to spread. For this reason I'm not keen on another lockdown. I'm very concerned about the future of the economy and the future of the hospitality, sports and entertainment sectors. I'm also concerned about those people with potential illnesses not COVID-related.

Oh, and I'm left-leaning, middle class, Ocado-using, financially protected from lockdown and older, so not in any of your neat boxes thanks.