At my breaking point now. Don't see light at the end of the tunnel

[Valleydad99]

This is probably not going to sit well with people but I'm honestly at the point where I'm questioning what the fucking point of these virus measures are. All the masks/social distancing/lockdowns haven't worked in eliminating the virus & now apparently as cases rise it's back to lockdown again?

Am I the only one thinking maybe we need a plan B? Rather than being flamed for apparently trying to kill people for questioning it?

My 1 year old has been locked down for half her life. I can't take the kids to see sport or play inside for basically no reason.

My kids are no longer welcome at church because of SD & in case they wander around like kids do so now we have no spiritual guidance & anyone I express concerns to just say it's for the greater good & fuck you. "Suffer the little children" said Jesus except when they need god most I suppose.

We've been following all the fucking rules but now it's well if more people followed the rules this would all be over. But that's just not true is it. There's no magic bullet & a vaccine doesn't cause it all to go away so I guess we'll just stay in our bunkers shouting wear a mask at people until we're all dead.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, guess I just want to shout into the void but I'm mentally at my breaking point & don't see a future for my children & me.

@Janevaljane

We need film crews back interviewing critical care staff so people are reminded that for example being a 50 old overweight type 2 diabetic is someone with preexisting medical conditions and if they get it they could well face a fortnight on a ventilator

Why?

As I've just said, people have become complacent and think it's only very old people with multiple medical problems who are getting it severely.

I don't think people necessarily think that, but on the other hand nonetheless for most people their own personal odds of a bad outcome are still quite low and people have different attitudes to risk. The information that seems very salient for you because of your own situation and approach might not actually influence others in the way you expect.

As I've just said, people have become complacent and think it's only very old people with multiple medical problems who are getting it severely

Well, the majority of fatal and severe cases ARE in the very elderly and with many underlying health issues.

I don't think people have become complacent? What else should they be doing?

@DappledThings

I like your priest

We need film crews back interviewing critical care staff so people are reminded that for example being a 50 old overweight type 2 diabetic is someone with preexisting medical conditions and if they get it they could well face a fortnight on a ventilator.

Great idea. Terrify the people who are already worried a bit more, while anyone who isn’t bothered now will continue to be not bothered. Most people are following most of the rules. They don’t need a side of shaming or attempts to terrify them into staying in the house all day every day.

'Well, the majority of fatal and severe cases ARE in the very elderly and with many underlying health issues.I don't think people have become complacent? What else should they be doing?'

You've just said you work in ICU! If you do you would know the 'very elderly with many underlying healthy ussues' tend not to be ventilated as they won't survive. It is often people in their 50s or even younger with relatively minor underlying health issues.

Read the many threads on mn about 'civil liberties!!' being curtailed all because 'very old' people die from it . People are indeed getting complacent and need perhaps to read stuff like this to remind them why the current restrictions are needed.

As I've just said, people have become complacent and think it's only very old people with multiple medical problems who are getting it severely.

Yes, and that is not untrue.

Of course you get the odd outlier, as you do with any illness. When I was a teenager a girl at my school died of flu. Aged 15. No underlying health issues.

If you do you would know the 'very elderly with many underlying healthy ussues' tend not to be ventilated as they won't survive.

I doubt that very much given a friend of my gran's received ventilation back in April and she is 89 with heart disease.

She survived it by the way.

@PlonkItDownNOW

If you do you would know the 'very elderly with many underlying healthy ussues' tend not to be ventilated as they won't survive.

I doubt that very much given a friend of my gran's received ventilation back in April and she is 89 with heart disease.

She survived it by the way.

Well I did say 'tend not to be' as age and many pre existing illnesses are relevant to likelihood of survival.

My point was it isn't just the elderly with end of life illnesses who get severe symptoms so when people complain about the inconveniences of the restrictions it's worth remembering that

[quote hopsalong]@IheartNiles Yes, the original lockdown was presented as a way to buy time. Perhaps I (like the rest of the word) was gullibly optimistic about the limits of human progress when all financial constraints were removed, and the some of the best minds in the world were working on the same problem. We split the fucking atom, for Christ's sake. We went to the moon. Why can't we find a halfway effective vaccine for a virus closely related to viruses we already knew about and had studied (if not developed a vaccine for)? It surely can't be that hard to get a vaccine in the arms of people likely to be infected? Couldn't Oxford have tried their own students? (Two of mine already down, and it's not even quite the first week of term.)

[/quote]
Because it takes time to test the long term effects of a vaccine, the make sure the cure is not worse than the disease, so to speak. The quickest produced vaccine took 4 years

My point was it isn't just the elderly with end of life illnesses who get severe symptoms

Except that it mostly is and the numbers prove it.

All the masks/social distancing/lockdowns haven't worked in eliminating the virus

Nobody said it was going to eliminate the virus. It was supposed to limit its spread and keep it from running rampant. You can't say the restrictions haven't achieved that, because you don't know what it would have been like without the restrictions. Scientists modelled the likely outcomes with and without restrictions back at the beginning. And that's why restrictions were brought in.

You've just said you work in ICU!

I think you've got me muddled up with someone else.

Most people are following the rules very carefully

Insisting people watch videos of outliers suffering is just designed to frighten them. Why would you want to do that? Do you not believe people are doing what they can?

I feel your pain @Valleydad99. But I’ve just signed the Great Barrington Declaration and I’m a bit more optimistic.

Given that the big growth in cases at the moment is in under-40s the absolute last thing you want to do to encourage compliance is to publicise their actual rate of serious illness and death from Covid-19; frankly you want to hold onto the public (mis)apprehension that this group is at serious risk for as long as possible. The media seem to have fuelled this greatly; I noticed that the Guardian at one point was publishing tributes to those lost to coronavirus that seemed to include every single nurse under 50 that had (tragically) died and a token handful of people aged over 80, all illustrated with photos of them much younger and full of descriptions about careers they'd retired from 20 years earlier - pretty misleading and also how's that for not seeing the lives of the elderly as just as important?

I haven't RTFT, apologies.

But just wanted to say, OP, you're not alone.

Today I'm feeling like there's no end to this and everyone's suffering. Times are so uncertain. I've been trying to practice gratitude but my MH is really suffering now, also due to other personal/health reasons.

I felt adhering to the rules was important and we all need to do our best, protect each other. I now feel like all this has failed and there's no real way out apart from living a normal life coexisting with this virus. I'm really getting to the point now of questioning whether we should just ignore it and be free again. It's because it would seem that no matter how hard we're trying, we can't have it under control. People will die. Maybe we will die. Maybe someone we love will die. Do we need to accept this and live freely again? Otherwise what's the alternative and how long for?

People are dying for other reasons, losing their livelihoods through no fault of their own, children are suffering and no one will make up for their lost education and development, MH crisis is extraordinary and will be felt for years. It's doom and gloom around, everywhere. Then those who worked their socks off throughout the pandemic will be punished with rising taxes and no pay rises for the foreseeable. I really am struggling to see anything positive anymore. Is this how we want to live? Because I sometimes question whether this life is worth living. It's existing, but not living to me.

@HildegardeCrowe

I feel your pain *@Valleydad99*. But I’ve just signed the Great Barrington Declaration and I’m a bit more optimistic.

Really?! Jeesus...that does make me feel despairing.

More about The Barrington Declaration here...www.wired.co.uk/article/great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-scientific-divide

And why does that make you despair @Bupkis?

Have also signed the Barrington Declaration. The first chink of light in the tunnel since March.

Because it takes time to test the long term effects of a vaccine, the make sure the cure is not worse than the disease, so to speak. The quickest produced vaccine took 4 years

That isn't how it works. Developing vaccines is not about waiting years to see long-term effects. There isn't some essential 'long-term effects safety check' that's being skipped for covid.

The long-term safety monitoring - and the way the monitor for really rare 1 in 100,000 bad effects - is done by continuing to monitor for safety after the vaccine has been licensed and lots of people have started getting it.

Because @HildegardeCrowe, it is based on the idea that

• there are a clearly defined group called 'the vulnerable' (who are they? What criteria make up this group?)
• that this group will be able to 'shield' from society indefinitely (ignoring the fact that 'the vulnerable' aren't other to society
• that the only negative consequences of contacting Covid, is death...ignoring the many people who are suffering long Covid, and the unknown consequences of contracting Covid
• that 'the vulnerable' will be happy to shield
• that this will provide adequate protection (don't forget, the death rate was at it's highest when 'the vulnerable' were shielding, and we were in full lockdown)
• how will 'the vulnerable' access essential healthcare in this indefinite period of complete isolation?
• in order for herd immunity to work (and according to Sunetra Gupta, don't forget, we have already achieved it....nearly...oh no, maybe not, as she got her figures wrong...oops)...we have to assume that people achieve immunity once they have had Covid-after all we are all going to get it and let our kids get it (excluding 'the vulnerable' of course) - because, as you know, there is no vaccine at the moment.
• the discussion from the Barrington declaration wrt the negative effects of Lockdown completely ignores that those negative effects will still be there...for 'the vulnerable'
• it sets up a straw man argument of complete lockdown v herd immunity/focused protection. These are not the options we are working with.

Here are some other eminent scientists saying all this and more in a far more intelligent way...
www.sciencemediacentre.org/expert-reaction-to-barrington-declaration-an-open-letter-arguing-against-lockdown-policies-and-for-focused-protection/

Bupkis, give over with "long Covid". I have said on other threads that I've had "long flu" and "long swine flu", but I didn't expect people to lose their jobs over it.

Some people are hit hard by viruses (including me), and take a very long time to get over them, where others bounce back pretty quickly. Ordinary old flu in my case turns into pneumonia, which turns into chronic fatigue.

I am still willing to take my chances with Covid, long or short, if it means that the rest of life can carry on as normal.

Because life is not worth living otherwise.

Well thats smashing @ChodeOfChodeBall, I'm glad you're not worried about it...sounds like you've got it all sussed.

Happy to take my chances too....enough of this crap now.