At my breaking point now. Don't see light at the end of the tunnel

[Valleydad99]

This is probably not going to sit well with people but I'm honestly at the point where I'm questioning what the fucking point of these virus measures are. All the masks/social distancing/lockdowns haven't worked in eliminating the virus & now apparently as cases rise it's back to lockdown again?

Am I the only one thinking maybe we need a plan B? Rather than being flamed for apparently trying to kill people for questioning it?

My 1 year old has been locked down for half her life. I can't take the kids to see sport or play inside for basically no reason.

My kids are no longer welcome at church because of SD & in case they wander around like kids do so now we have no spiritual guidance & anyone I express concerns to just say it's for the greater good & fuck you. "Suffer the little children" said Jesus except when they need god most I suppose.

We've been following all the fucking rules but now it's well if more people followed the rules this would all be over. But that's just not true is it. There's no magic bullet & a vaccine doesn't cause it all to go away so I guess we'll just stay in our bunkers shouting wear a mask at people until we're all dead.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, guess I just want to shout into the void but I'm mentally at my breaking point & don't see a future for my children & me.

Oh bless you. It must be so hard with children.

Your one year old won't care, she has you and from what you say, siblings, and you can go out, just not everywhere or get up close to people.

Nobody needs to go out to watch 'sport', you can see that on screen if that interested.

Children don't need church but you can go, leave them at home with other half or take in turns to go.

Spiritual guidance available online, even by skype or zoom, and youtube has guided meditations.

Of course you can play indoors, why ever not? Children have played indoors when the weather is bad since forever and if you have a garden, even a little one, they can play there when it is fine. It's lovely today.

This situation will not last forever, especially if people are sensible and stick to guidelines. It eased not long ago but so many went mad we're almost back to square one but it won't be for long.

Books and music.

Keep chin up and think of next year.

@Lovemusic33

I agree it’s pretty depressing but I don't think there is a plan B or not until there’s a vaccine anyway. No one really knows if masks are helping because they are not worn in all situations, not worn at school, not worn when visiting people’s houses, not worn outside etc..., it maybe that they do work when worn correctly but not many are wearing them correctly.

I think all we can do is sit tight until there’s a vaccine and we are allowed to return to normal. I know it would be much easier if we knew a vaccine would be ready in a few months but despite what people say we don’t really know when it will be.

But a vaccine might be years away! People won't put up with all this for that long.

With the church issue, does your church have a hall where Sunday school usually happens? We have been running our Sunday school again since July, with a separate table for each family 'bubble'. Each table has their own resources, we've done lots of work with puppets as well to help the children work through some aspects of the pandemic. Regular attendance has gone up since lockdown - we also did Zoom Sunday school, and back then it really helped all the children to see each other.

It's hard work for me, but has been hugely positive for the children, could you organise something like this if no one else will? PM me if you would like to know how we do it.

Am I frightened? Yes. But not about Covid19. I am afraid for those losing their jobs, and their homes. I am afraid for young people and their future work prospects. I am afraid that we will be paying for this for ever.

It's not that they're not allowed in. It's that they must sit still & not move & it's not possible to corral a 1 & a 3 year old for an hour without a literal pen which they've got rid of as no kids zone so we're not welcome

I'd have thought a three-year-old could sit still for an hour, but if that really isn't possible and you're very keen to go to church can't you go on your own? (I'm assuming you're not a single parent as you haven't said that's the case.)

No, we haven't eliminated the virus, and that's not going to happen any time soon, but one thing we do know with absolute certainty is that it can only be transmitted by contact with other people, so it makes sense to limit that.

OP you won't get a sympathetic hearing on this board where the mentality is still "lock down harder... harder damnit" but you're not alone.

I tend to get over the breaking points by viewing them as temporary walls to push through (to get onto the next fucking wall) but it's not a life - it's an existence. It must be incredibly hard with smaller kids - mine are slightly older and theoretically able to entertain themselves but they suck at that!

I'll be hiding the thread now as the kick them when they're down cliche squad are out but you're not alone.

Incidentally with the parks - they were late unlocking our playgrounds - THEN decided to refurbish them so locked most of them back up again for very slow building work!

I object to that actually domina

The overwhelming replies here are sympathetic.

@Hardbackwriter

I think the idea that a church is like an adult-only restaurant or bar and that kids should just be kept out is a really, really sad one that betrays such a lack of understanding of the idea of a Christian community. Toddlers and young children weren't allowed to run around unsupervised in our old church, and there was a special play area for them, but it was accepted that they make noise, might need to move around, etc. Because they're part of the congregation. I don't really understand how a church could perform the standard baptism service, with all its messages about welcoming the child into the community, and then say 'but actually kids are a bit noisy and inconvenient so could you get a babysitter?'

Absolutely this.

I remember apologising to my priest once because DS was nearly 2 and wanting to spend most of the service walking up and down the two steps to the side chapel which was quite in view of a lot of people. He said to me that DS had been welcomed in Baptism to our church and that if anyone ever made me feel that he was unwelcome or that there wasn't understanding that sometimes small children need to move abou in order to remain content and quiet(ish) I was to let him know rightaway.

It is all very gloomy. Some businesses in Montreal (a friend lives there) are not planning for a return to normal before 2023 and while this sounds totally excessive to me, I suppose there is a real possibility that we will have to live like this for another two years. In which case I am not sure what will become of the world.

Local GP sent out a newsletter this week which said that Cpvid is currently the 24th leading cause of death in the UK, accounting for 1.4% of the total number of deaths in the past month. Go figure.

I am very with you, and church is the part that saddens me the most. Its great saying oh but they can go - well yeah, and the whole thing is a fucking nightmare where I'm made to feel like a granny killer if they wander off or run around or do anything that kids do. And the Sunday school is basically non existent. And harvest festival involves an online treasure hunt. Fuck that. Humans are social and need social interaction.

@jessstan1 why on earth would children not need church? When else would they be enjoying the bible stories and crafts? And the other kids they meet there? I'm not even particularly religious myself, but I don't want to deprive my children of the religious education I really enjoyed as a child.

This has appeared on the BBC live feed this morning:

10:06
'Growing evidence' younger children do not play major role in spread

There is growing evidence that primary school children do not play a major role in spreading Covid-19, a scientist advising the UK government has said.

Prof Calum Semple, an expert in child health and outbreak medicine at the University of Liverpool, said: "We're quite confident now that primary school children are probably a quarter to half as likely to become infected and are also much less likely to pass the infection on.

"Then, in secondary school children, again it's less than adults.

"But it's a gradient of effects such that sixth-formers are probably about the same risk as adults. But that data is slightly less stable."

He also suggested there was an argument for taking primary school-aged children out of testing altogether and that many scientists were considering the idea of removing them from restrictions limiting social gatherings to six people.

I really hope more thought is given about this and just how much women with young children are being isolated.

@xtinak exactly. Every parenting book tells you it's important to acknowledge children's feelings and fears, rather than say they don't matter or they're not real. And yet apparently the same doesn't apply to adults feelings, subjective as they by definition are.
Case in point, guy I knew had a baby. Went to his GP, who knew he had a history of depression, said he was struggling. He was told everyone finds parenting hard, was given a leaflet for new dads. He killed himself.

I find it so annoying when people say that the impact on preschoolers doesn't matter because they won't remember it and they don't need anything other than being at home playing with a stick anyway. Pre-Covid we all seemed pretty certain that early years experiences are formative and that it was pretty important to expose them to new experiences and age-appropriate socialisation. There is a widespread belief on MN that children universally don't need any social interaction outside the immediate family until they're 3, which I can confidently say is absolute bollocks on the evidence of my two-year old.

Can't parents read their children bible stories, do crafts, and talk about Jesus? I'm not aware of loads of stories that are only available in church and nowhere else.
It must be hard to miss out on the playdates and chat but it seems a bit off to try and frame "no church sunday school playtime" as "my kids are being denied their religion".

@StormTreader

Can't parents read their children bible stories, do crafts, and talk about Jesus? I'm not aware of loads of stories that are only available in church and nowhere else. It must be hard to miss out on the playdates and chat but it seems a bit off to try and frame "no church sunday school playtime" as "my kids are being denied their religion".

Yes, but then we may as well dismantle the church entirely. My church has stood in mostly it's current form since 1250. Given parish records we know that my family have been going to it since the time of Henry VIII & some of our ancestors are buried there in the church yard. It's a connection to our ancestors & to the future as well as a focal point for religion & to all the Christians around the world. They won't run a children's service due to the cleaning issue.

I don't know what the answer is but I'm concerned about my children's future & don't see one now except in deep poverty & afraid of other people. It's no way to live.

Children being part of Church......what next?

I'm an nhs frontline worker (ICU) in a badly affected area and absolutely get what you are saying. I'm sick of it too and I don't know what the answer is. We are rapidly filling up with desperately ill covid patients now after after a good couple of very quiet months, 2 -3 critically ill covid admissions each night over the last 3 nights I've been working (finished this morning). We are short of staff because of staff self isolating, also a couple off with stress, so for those of us at work it really is awful. Many of my colleagues are so apprehensive about how things will pan out as we've also been told we won't have access to staff from other areas like before. I think the issue is that it doesn't take long to overwhelm critical care beds, we've only so many and the staff to man them isn't finite either. Most of the patients we have (though not all ) do have co morbidities but they're not doddery pensioners either. At the height of the pandemic I can't describe how bad things were, tried our best in very difficult circumstances, couldn't give the amazing nursing care that we are routinely able to give in ICU, just hope it doesn't get as bad as that again.

Katharinablum where are you? Our hospitals are deserted.

Valleydad, despite what you think, you are not alone. A number of people feel particularly depressed by the current situation not only because of the effects of lockdown, but also because those who talk about those effects are shouted down on the basis that nothing at all matters apart from Covid. Life therefore feels completely dystopian. There are a few voices of reason out there, who understand that all social and economic policy cannot sustainably be based solely on one virus; but as is always the way, the least reasonable shout loudest. If there is one positive thing you can do, to remind yourself that you are not alone, it would be to sign the Great Barrington Declaration, linked to by a pp above.

@Tootletum That's terrible, I'm so sorry.

I think we just have to recognise that everyone's situation is different, even if it looks similar on the outside. For example, you might have a 3 year old that can sit quietly for an hour. But you might have one that runs up and down constantly and is prone to major tantrums. It's largely just the luck of the draw. However, your experiences as a parent are going to be so so different as a result of this! So there's just no use in saying, oh well, we were fine so why aren't you? I know people do this anyway, sometimes I think because it helps them to feel better about themselves.

This whole covid19 thing is just one vast moral grey area in the end. There's so much complexity here. We'll all do what we can in the circumstances, balancing our needs with those of others.

@Janevaljane not outing self but north west.

'We are rapidly filling up with desperately ill covid patients now after after a good couple of very quiet months, 2 -3 critically ill covid admissions each night over the last 3 nights I've been working '

Yes and the msm really need to focus on this. The narrative seems to be 'old people die from it so just isolate them and let us get back to normal'. Many peoole seem so complacent just because younger people at the moment are getting it, but it just doesn't die out once a student has it.

We need film crews back interviewing critical care staff so people are reminded that for example being a 50 old overweight type 2 diabetic is someone with preexisting medical conditions and if they get it they could well face a fortnight on a ventilator.

We need film crews back interviewing critical care staff so people are reminded that for example being a 50 old overweight type 2 diabetic is someone with preexisting medical conditions and if they get it they could well face a fortnight on a ventilator

Why?

The Pope spoke about Covid almost daily at the height of things in Italy.
Once services started again they were, wherever possible, held outdoors or in school gyms etc. Our local parish for example is doing mass on Sunday on a local tennis court and in a school gym if it rains. So children are able to run around and participate as they want.
Church school "camps" all happened as usual for kids this summer but with masks.