At my breaking point now. Don't see light at the end of the tunnel

[Valleydad99]

This is probably not going to sit well with people but I'm honestly at the point where I'm questioning what the fucking point of these virus measures are. All the masks/social distancing/lockdowns haven't worked in eliminating the virus & now apparently as cases rise it's back to lockdown again?

Am I the only one thinking maybe we need a plan B? Rather than being flamed for apparently trying to kill people for questioning it?

My 1 year old has been locked down for half her life. I can't take the kids to see sport or play inside for basically no reason.

My kids are no longer welcome at church because of SD & in case they wander around like kids do so now we have no spiritual guidance & anyone I express concerns to just say it's for the greater good & fuck you. "Suffer the little children" said Jesus except when they need god most I suppose.

We've been following all the fucking rules but now it's well if more people followed the rules this would all be over. But that's just not true is it. There's no magic bullet & a vaccine doesn't cause it all to go away so I guess we'll just stay in our bunkers shouting wear a mask at people until we're all dead.

I'm not sure what the point of this post is, guess I just want to shout into the void but I'm mentally at my breaking point & don't see a future for my children & me.

Sending sympathy - I also miss church so much. Our local church now only does pre-booked services in church with a very low number of people allowed, and we moved house just after lockdown so I don't feel we can justify taking a 'slot' from regular congregation when we'll be strangers. We were always going to miss our old church a lot, it was a huge part of our lives - and it makes me sad that because we moved before it reopened we'll never get to say goodbye to the many people there that we saw and spoke to every week but didn't know well enough to have contact details for - but it's horrible now not having one at all. That said, I just don't know how we safely could go to a church, regardless of the actual restrictions in place. We're CofE and both our old and our intended church have, like a lot of CofE churches, congregations heavily dominated by the elderly and I just don't see how we (me, DH who is a secondary school teacher and our toddler who is in nursery) could go, knowing the relatively high risk that one of us might carry it at any given point, and mix with such a vulnerable population. I'm also very aware that while our lives feel very curtailed many of the elderly in our congregation must have had essentially no social contact without the church, for so many of them their entire lives revolved around it, and so it feels right and Christian to prioritise them returning over us.

To respond to PP - we do watch virtual broadcasts from our old church and I've been a lot more diligent with my daily prayer app than I usually am since I realised how much I was missing church as a place of still reflection, but it really, really isn't the same.

@AiryFairyMum

Children really shouldn't be running round in church anyway. Our congregation is mostly over 75 and they dont need norovirus or any of the other bugs kids regularly bring back from preschool, let alone covid. Do you have no childcare for them so you could go alone?

As I said, I understand and appreciate that it just isn't practical or sensible for small children to be in church at the moment, but I think the idea that they should normally be excluded and that parents should get a babysitter to go to church is pretty awful - churches aren't an adult space and I hope anyone suggesting they should be isn't actually a church goer. I've never been to a church where babies and children weren't welcomed as full members of the congregation with as much right to be there as anyone else and I always thought that was right, even when I found it quite personally difficult to be surrounded by children during fertility problems.

OP - I’m not religious - but my parents church do online services - do your church or do any near you ? would something like that help you ? Could you and your partner take it in turns to go to church alone ?

I work doing clinical telephone triage for the emergency services and was a frontline paramedic during the worst of the pandemic. I’m spending every shift talking to people who are at the end of their tether due to lockdown/social distancing. They mainly fall into three camps, the elderly and carers who have lost all their support systems and are really struggling to survive, the young particularly now university students who are battling crippling anxiety with no face to face friend networks to support them and people who have either lost their jobs or are worried that they will. The number of attempted suicides is enormous but they probably don’t appear on any figures as yet.
What has really shocked me is the number of elderly people who are attempting to take their own life’s and who say to me “ I can’t go on like this, I’m so lonely, my family are scared to see me and I’m scared to go out” Fear is literally killing people. They generally coped well when it was for three months but now there seems to be no end in sight it seems hopeless.
Even for young people online support is not enough, we are social animals and need face to face and physical contact.

It's fine to admit that you are struggling, but what you've got to do is have a moan then develop strategies to cope.

I don't know one person who isn't concerned, who thinks this is all nothing but without a doubt it will be like this and worse for the foreseeable future. So yes get if off your chest but then change your mindset. Either don't go to church or go and take books etc to keep your kids quiet. They really don't need to wander about. If you cant keep them settled then use childcare or don't go.

I am sorry you are feeling this way Op. Try to protect your own mental health. Don't worry about what you can't change, like it says in the serenity prayer. Your kids will be fine. They're too young to remember this so just keep them safe and try to vent away from them. Do you get down time/ time on your own? Can you leave the kids at home while you go to church op / take it in turns to go if your partner attends?

Don’t have time to write everything I’d like to say OP - another day of toddler care beckons! - but just wanted to say you’re not alone; I agree and identify with with everything you say and all of my toddler/preschooler friends would agree (l’m on multiple WhatsApp conversations at the moment railing against all the rules). We are all thoroughly done with this, and won’t be abiding by any further restrictions - if there’s a lockdown and nurseries close again we’ll organise informal play dates etc. There is a feeling - even among those who are usually conscientious rule followers - that children and young/working families have been thrown under the bus in the same of protecting the elderly. In western society at the moment it is always, always about the Boomers and their needs.

Children really shouldn't be running round in church anyway. Our congregation is mostly over 75 and they dont need norovirus or any of the other bugs kids regularly bring back from preschool, let alone covid. Do you have no childcare for them so you could go alone

And this is the crux of it. We pay lip service to being inclusive but where kids are concerned in this country we have barely moved beyond Victorian times.

My Granddad has end stage pulmonary fibrosis and basically can't move without getting breathless. If he gets covid it would almost certainly finish him off.

However, he's stated categorically he'd rather spend the last few months of his life seeing family and take the risk of catching covid then spend it looking at everyone from behind a window and only seeing his carers.

'if there’s a lockdown and nurseries close again we’ll organise informal play dates etc. There is a feeling - even among those who are usually conscientious rule followers - that children and young/working families have been thrown under the bus in the same of protecting the elderly. In western society at the moment it is always, always about the Boomers and their needs.'

And there we have it. People will do their own thing anyway. Not vital things like visiting elderly people but 'organise playdates'. Lovely.

Over 80s may be more likely to die but the ICUs are filling up with those in their 50s. Fuck that though as long as you have your chats and playdates.

I agree with you OP. I’d be happy to go along with all of this if it was actually helping.

But it’s not. Government doesn’t know what to do now. Probably they never did, but it’s gone beyond managing.

the ICUs are filling up with those in their 50s

What's your source for that please?

I feel really flat😩 life is crap at the moment.

@GetOffYourHighHorse

'if there’s a lockdown and nurseries close again we’ll organise informal play dates etc. There is a feeling - even among those who are usually conscientious rule followers - that children and young/working families have been thrown under the bus in the same of protecting the elderly. In western society at the moment it is always, always about the Boomers and their needs.'

And there we have it. People will do their own thing anyway. Not vital things like visiting elderly people but 'organise playdates'. Lovely.

Over 80s may be more likely to die but the ICUs are filling up with those in their 50s. Fuck that though as long as you have your chats and playdates.

I don't like the antagonism between generations of either the post you quoted or your reply to it. I really hate the narrative that the old are somehow stealing something from the young in the coronavirus crisis - I think it's both unkind and untrue - but I also hate the idea that the young are being selfish and irresponsible to want some vestiges of their life. Why is visiting elderly people (presumably for company, care visits were always allowed under even the strictest lockdown) any more or less important than socialisation for children and their parents? Why would you even place those things in opposition?

OP you are definitely not alone in how you feel!

We have been told we need to consider the greater good but sometimes you just need to think of yourself and I think you need to give yourself permission to put yourself and your children first here, in any way you can. Ultimately what's happening is the fault of cruel nature and government failings. You don't need to shoulder that burden yourself or accept it when others try to force it on you.

Why is visiting elderly people (presumably for company, care visits were always allowed under even the strictest lockdown) any more or less important than socialisation for children and their parents?

Because, in many people's eyes, you're talking about the actual lives of the elderly rather than the perceived "frivolous" need to socialise among younger people.

That's not to say I think that, but that's why it's deemed more important.

Ah, that’s not fair at all re the comment about children.

Lockdown aside, tbh I don’t think church is great for very young children. My parents used to make me attend and I remember it lasting seemingly forever and being uncomfortable, and I didn’t understand a word of it.

Sunday school is obviously different, it’s aimed at very young ones. But if it’s not going ahead just at the moment, what can you do? Some things just aren’t suitable for very wee ones, same as some restaurants and bars and so on aren’t. That’s one of the reasons I don’t really think taking children to church and having them run round is on, it isn’t safe at all. Mine is packed with things a toddler could fall into and hurt themselves.

That’s not acknowledging it isn’t difficult, it’s just the solution isn’t packs of wee ones charging around a church, corona or no corona

And there we have it. People will do their own thing anyway. Not vital things like visiting elderly people but 'organise playdates'. Lovely.

Yep, sorry. Children need socialisation as much as older people need company. Interesting that your example of vital ‘worthy deeds’ was about supporting the elderly, and the frivolous, unnecessary one was about supporting kids.

In the name of ‘protecting the elderly’ all of my local churches and community halls have reopened to elderly social groups, yoga, Zumba, you name it - while refusing to reopen the toddler groups that were a lifeline to so many (generally poorer) young parents. But, you know, priorities again, isn’t it?

I think the idea that a church is like an adult-only restaurant or bar and that kids should just be kept out is a really, really sad one that betrays such a lack of understanding of the idea of a Christian community. Toddlers and young children weren't allowed to run around unsupervised in our old church, and there was a special play area for them, but it was accepted that they make noise, might need to move around, etc. Because they're part of the congregation. I don't really understand how a church could perform the standard baptism service, with all its messages about welcoming the child into the community, and then say 'but actually kids are a bit noisy and inconvenient so could you get a babysitter?'

'What's your source for that please?'

Oh sorry it's anecdotal, I have friends and family in critical care. If you look at worldometer and covid19 tracker patients requiring ventilation is climbing. They don’t ventilate elderly people with end of life medical conditions and it isnt 'just' dispensable old people affected.

'My Granddad has end stage pulmonary fibrosis and basically can't move without getting breathless. If he gets covid it would almost certainly finish him off'

Oh but think of the playdates that are being missed! I hope mn is like twitter and not representative of the majority of people rl. So depressing to think a parent can't keep their kids quiet in church and thinks it's the end of the world and another thinks playdates are the be all and end all.

@Hardbackwriter

I think the idea that a church is like an adult-only restaurant or bar and that kids should just be kept out is a really, really sad one that betrays such a lack of understanding of the idea of a Christian community. Toddlers and young children weren't allowed to run around unsupervised in our old church, and there was a special play area for them, but it was accepted that they make noise, might need to move around, etc. Because they're part of the congregation. I don't really understand how a church could perform the standard baptism service, with all its messages about welcoming the child into the community, and then say 'but actually kids are a bit noisy and inconvenient so could you get a babysitter?'

But that’s not what I mean at all, hardback! The actual service though involves sitting (usually on hard chairs or a bench!) and listening to a sermon. It’s that which probably isn’t great for the child him/herself. Obviously then the child gets bored and wants to start charging around the place.

That’s why most churches do have a crèche or Sunday school for little ones. But if that isn’t on at the moment, then IMO it isn’t fair to take them. It isn’t fair to expect a toddler to sit quietly through a church service and it equally isn’t on to have him run about, for his own safety as much as anything else.

I think the idea that a church is like an adult-only restaurant or bar and that kids should just be kept out is a really, really sad one that betrays such a lack of understanding of the idea of a Christian community. Toddlers and young children weren't allowed to run around unsupervised in our old church, and there was a special play area for them, but it was accepted that they make noise, might need to move around, etc. Because they're part of the congregation. I don't really understand how a church could perform the standard baptism service, with all its messages about welcoming the child into the community, and then say 'but actually kids are a bit noisy and inconvenient so could you get a babysitter?'

I agree with every word of this.

I live in Glastonbury for it's alternative spiritual life and there has been next to nothing going on apart from the usual anti mask idiot protests.
All of my friends and religious groups have been meeting on skype but that's not my idea of joining other for autumn equinox or whatever. It's a bit weird.
Me and my cat have become very close indeed because we are not seeing anyone else. My cat is lonely too, she loved seeing my friends and has become very clingy.
I'm hoping this vitus will just burn itself out like the Spanish flu did, that lasted about 2 years I think then everything was back to normal.

and all of my toddler/preschooler friends would agree (l’m on multiple WhatsApp conversations at the moment railing against all the rules). We are all thoroughly done with this, and won’t be abiding by any further restrictions - if there’s a lockdown and nurseries close again we’ll organise informal play dates etc

This is so, so depressing to hear. Not that you’re fed up - who isn’t? - but that you think you being fed up means you should just get to do what you like now, stuff the consequences, and that parents of young DC are all with you.

I have a toddler (and older DC) and spent lockdown working from home with them, working on covid response stuff. It was AWFUL. Some days I would literally be paging through emails about hospital admission numbers while chasing my toddler through the house, so I had the children stress plus the “oh God why happens if we fill up all the ICUs?” stress, hour after hour after day after day. And it wasn’t only the over-80s ending up in hospital, either.

If we have a lockdown again and nurseries close again, I will be moved back to this work, and this life, trying to look after my children while also trying to help my colleague manage the rate of all these all these people needing all this care and hoping to God we don’t end up with the scenes they had in Ecuador and northern Italy. We dodged that last time, would we this time? What happens to all the people we can’t treat for other things as a result of Covid resurgence? Those are fun calculations to make!

But so long as you have a lovely time on your informal playdates, then never mind, eh?

Don't you have parks and playgrounds where you are??
Didn't you go out a lot this summer?