Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

In China, healthcare workers are simply told what flight they’re getting across the country and what time to be at the airport

Er, do you understand the fundamental relationship between individual and state in China?

I'm not sure a totalitarian model is the right route, to put it mildly.

5 million people die a year in Europe.

In a normal year approx 500000 die of respiratory diseases in Europe, so over 1000 a day.

[quote 110APiccadilly]@NRatched It's true for the PHE deaths figures (because they are done quickly - this is a measure that's fairly quick to calculate). ONS publish figures on deaths using the cause on the death certificate which are more reliable than the PHE figures, but have much more lag. In my opinion, the ONS ones are the only ones worth paying attention to.[/quote]
Thanks a lot. This makes more sense, if its just for the 'very quick' numbers but they are revised and more accurate later.

@RepeatSwan

In China, healthcare workers are simply told what flight they’re getting across the country and what time to be at the airport

Er, do you understand the fundamental relationship between individual and state in China?

I'm not sure a totalitarian model is the right route, to put it mildly.

Quite

Though it does seem to be brought up a lot that the likes of China ad North Korea have done amazingly and we should basically, do the same as them.

@Ecosse

Absolutely- we need to run hospital capacity hot. Imo we should absolutely adopt the Chinese model of moving doctors and nurses where they’re needed across the country.

What we cannot have is a situation where Plymouth hospital is empty with staff sitting idle, while Birmingham Nightingale needs staff.

In China, healthcare workers are simply told what flight they’re getting across the country and what time to be at the airport. Clearly we should have a more compassionate system here, but I don’t think it’s impossible to do.

Classic!

If hospitals aren’t full of Covid their staff are getting on with their normal work. You know, treating cancer, heart attacks and so on. Hospitals run hot all year round. My hospital is always at 95% capacity. We have minimum staffing due to austerity. Do you think we all sit idle drinking tea?

Though it does seem to be brought up a lot that the likes of China ad North Korea have done amazingly and we should basically, do the same as them.

We could do the same in terms of investing in testing and tracing, but we should not do the same in terms of becoming a police state!

@RepeatSwan

Though it does seem to be brought up a lot that the likes of China ad North Korea have done amazingly and we should basically, do the same as them.

We could do the same in terms of investing in testing and tracing, but we should not do the same in terms of becoming a police state!

Again definitely agreed!

Though I am increasingly thinking recently, I think the boat has been missed on test and trace now for us. Due to many fuckups, a testing system thats shocking for many (my dad got results in 18 hours from a test last week though, we were most impressed and hoped this was a sign of it getting sorted, alas, hope was misplaced it seems), contacts not being contacted on multiple occasions, and a few other issues. To be starting off from the number of currently infected seems a fools errand, especially when so many are asymptmatic. Starting at the end of lockdown as planned would have had much bigger chances of sucess

@NRatched

I agree, my gloom recently is because I feel perhaps the UK government has fucked this up in an irreparable way.

If only if only if only....

The test and trace boat has sailed far into the faraway distance. It’s long gone.

So we are left with herd immunity or lockdown.

The only achievable thing (test and trace) which could have avoided this whole situation blowing up this autumn, has been lost.

Not sure how we come back from it tbh. Vaccine not a certainty. Lockdowns not going to work (they had one shot at that nationally, which obviously hasn't been a long term solution.)

Restricted freedom won't be the new normal, but living with the threat of covid (alongside all the other threats we live with) will be.

This half life is not sustainable.

@Dustballs

The test and trace boat has sailed far into the faraway distance. It’s long gone.

So we are left with herd immunity or lockdown.

Thanks, this thread has really cheered me up

Sadly I think you are right about test and trace.

But I think herd immunity is illusory.

So what we have imo is swirling infection and reinfection, or lockdown.

I agree herd immunity is no certainty. I don’t know tbh.

It would be nice to feel that someone in charge did though.

Oh dear god. In every other sector huge consideration must be given to childcare obligations and family life but medical professionals are expected to drop everything and travel all over the country at no notice?

Lockdown has many many downsides. As does herd immunity and we are not even sure if it would work (though those crowing that 'it will never work as no long term immuity is gained, it lasts 4 weeks only!' and such thinking it helps their argument about locking down until theres a vaccine are..amusing in a very dark way and they do not even realise why). 'Protecting the vulnerable' en masse would not work either. Some of the shielding list, possibly. But not the majority of 'the vulnerable'. No chance.

I don't agree with the herd immunity strategy OR lockdown. But I am increasingly aware that those are starting to seem the only realistic options. If they are the only options, I fear we will soon be down to no choice, one option. As I cannot see public tolerance for actual lockdown being anywhere near what it was, and it seems to be declining by the day..along with public faith in the government AT ALL, and it will get even worse when furlough ends (or changes? but from what I read, companies cannot afford the changes so its effectively game over for many staff) ad the mass job losses start.

I can honestly see civil unrest soon, and its worrying me. I thought a week or so back that was an overreaction but, I could see it happening with how things seem to be going. It won't be civil unrest because of a virus, as so many would put it. It would be the response to it.

The above all fucking terrify me to be quite honest.
Just as much as those advocating for army patrolling the streets to ensure lockdown was adhered to did.

I have no answers. And honestly, that terrifys me more.

It would be nice to feel that someone in charge did though.

So people want medical professionals (who are already in reduced numbers due to poor working conditions) to travel to different areas at the drop of a hat, but don’t want restrictions on people’s abilities to go out and socialise...

I mean it’s fair enough - but many in the health sector will quit and go abroad. Those who took early retirement, who they were trying to get back to help with the first wave will stay away.

Govt could also legislate to prevent evictions or cutting off of utilities, rationing, exemptions to lockdown for medical/mental health care, online learning with exceptions for vulnerable kids. So that the numbers of cases can be brought down so test and trace can cope.

Govt can ban private testing - ration testing on needs basis, convert uni labs to testing labs. I think these other measures would help mitigate problems of another short lockdown and help test and trace get back

This is America.

Most of you won’t agree. Personally I think it’s the way forward and would sign up tomorrow.

gbdeclaration.org/

Someone said up thread that lockdown didn’t work because we didn’t find a cure. Er.....not the point of lockdown which is mainly to slow exponential growth.

Look at the news from Paris today if you fancy allowing ‘everyone to live their lives’ as normal. Massive exponential growth and critical care beds filling up rapidly there.

@Hyperfish101

There will always be localised issues as we are now seeing in París. However, if we reintroduced shielding on a voluntary and funded basis, we would see far less hospital admissions.

It seems like madness to me that people who were shielding are being expected to attend work and school as normal.

Labour analysis shows 19/20 areas in England that have been under restrictions over the last two months have seen increases in infection rates in that time

eg Burnley (under restrictions since 31 July) has seen infection rate increase over 20 times from 21 to 434 per 100k.

These localised lockdowns ain’t gonna do sh*t.

I read a line somewhere, going into lockdown is like kicking a can down the road, it's still there, just been pushed further away for later.
I also have asthma and a BMI of 30ish, i am back to the office, to the gym, to restaurants and pubs, i am also wearing masks where required, sanitising my hands a lot and sticking to the rule of 6.
I'm happy with the current guidelines, it's a good middle ground, i am in no way scared of Covid but i will comply with all requirements to reduce the risk/spread.

I heard a phrase last night which made me laugh:

"Enjoy Covid because the aftermath is going to be hell"

I think localised lockdowns might have worked better if there had been more compliance. So I read we’re just going to end up with tougher restrictions unfortunately.

Leaving the country to exponential growth just won’t happen. No govt will want that legacy.

[quote Downwithcovid]This is America.

Most of you won’t agree. Personally I think it’s the way forward and would sign up tomorrow.

gbdeclaration.org/[/quote]
No I really don't agree

I agree with this, and feel if we had really gone for these aims (2nd picture) from the outset, we would be in a far better position now.