Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

...sorry meant to say, I agree with Prof Devi Sridhar's tweets here - as to reasons why I don't agree, and what should be done.

Sridhar is all for the ‘theory’ & yes the theory sounds excellent. She doesn’t seem to acknowledge the lack of compliance in the UK population however, which is a bit of a bummer for her.

For those who say ‘the old’ need to ‘protect themselves’ from Corona while life goes on for everyone else, how would you feel about substituting poor for old?

For the wealthy, life must go on and the poor should protect themselves from life’s contingencies, such as a health crisis or not being able to make ends meet at the end of the week.

The rich are tired of this unendurable taxation system to help others, tired of those who do nothing to help society.

Time to scrap taxes and allow those who can help themselves to ‘get on with life’,

(The above is ironic, on case people are unable to see irony these days).

There is no ‘scientific divide’ over herd immunity

There’s a lot of talk of scientists divided over Covid-19, but when you look at the evidence any so-called divide starts to evaporate

www.wired.co.uk/article/great-barrington-declaration-herd-immunity-scientific-divide

@MummyPop00

Sridhar is all for the ‘theory’ & yes the theory sounds excellent. She doesn’t seem to acknowledge the lack of compliance in the UK population however, which is a bit of a bummer for her.

Well to be fair, if the theory had ever actually been implemented properly by this shitehawk of a government, then we would be able to see whether people would be compliant or not.

Of course we're assuming the cult of Barrington is not just theoretical and all the people deemed 'vulnerable' (which would include who??) will all comply with being isolated indefinitely.

To be honest if OP is scared to leave the house because 900 out of 740 million Europeans died in one day, I dont think there is much point trying to argue rationally around risk.

@Bagelsandbrie

I’m in the clinically vulnerable group- I have Addison’s, lupus, asthma, pituitary issues etc etc. I’m nearly 40. I also have two children who are both back at school and a husband who works full time. Life must go on. We have to take risks every day to live. If you drive a car, cross a road or eat fatty foods you are taking a risk because doing those things means your quality of life is better for doing so. Same with Covid. You do all you can to reduce the risks but not to the point you have no life, otherwise life becomes pointless.

I could die from any of my conditions with or without Covid. I’m not going to stop living for something that may not kill me.

You are a star. I suspect living with the conditions you do you have a healthy attitude to risk and how that fits with life.

Many people who seem scared have never faced up to their own mortality I guess. (And of course there are others who - well I can't explain why but just seem to enjoy spreading fear). Mind you the government intended the fear and the mainstream media have backed them up until recently. Hopefully the tide is turning.

I hope you stay well

@Twattergy

To be honest if OP is scared to leave the house because 900 out of 740 million Europeans died in one day, I dont think there is much point trying to argue rationally around risk.

Ain't that the truth!

The tide is turning though. More posters are stating that this is not living and the restrictions are worse than the consequences for the community as a whole.

Mainstream media is getting more on board too with the stupidity of some of the rules - and worse the way they are sometimes implemented.

@FreshFreesias

Because people are fed up that their lives are being destroyed for a virus that kills vanishingly few. Do the dreadful side effects of lockdown not bother you at all, OP?

This 100 times over. It's just a virus, we cannot hide from it forever and ruin the economy & destroy thousands of jobs whilst doing so.

'The tide is turning though. More posters are stating that this is not living and the restrictions are worse than the consequences for the community as a whole.'

This is just not true. Hospitals in some areas of the country are already filling with Covid again, which is why some areas are having to lock down again.

What would you have them do? Not hospitalise Covid patients over a certain age and just let them die? What age would that be?

I have a question for those who think we should not lockdown and let the virus spread. What do you think should happen when hospitals reach capacity or almost reach capacity? At this point do you see that anyone with a life threatening illness (Covid or otherwise) is just turned away? We ride this out for 6 months where people Can basically receive no treatment and take their chances, then hopefully come out the other side with enough immunity in the community that it doesn’t happen again? Is this what you see as being the preferred route from now on?

That’s the problem.

If it just runs, the NHS will be overwhelmed with older people who are likely to remain in a hospital bed for a long time. This is not just the case with Covid, hospitals are mainly occupied by older people. In fact the maternity unit is probably the only section where people are young (obviously half of them very young!).

In Italy (epicentre) at the height of the pandemic people over a certain age were not admitted to hospital. So in order to avoid such a situation I do think that care homes unfortunately do need to retain strict rules.

The problem is not that you do or do not want to risk getting the virus - the problem is how you would feel if you passed it on to others who died, whatever their age is.

There seems to be so many that are fed up and want to get on with life, a reality check is needed, you think the government is putting in restrictions and lockdown for the sake of it.. no they are doing it to protect the nhs getting overwhelmed and to protect everyone, get a grip. This has only been going on 7 months, but the way some of you go on it's like it's been 7 years!!

@Chickenandrice

There is no evidence that hospitals would be overwhelmed if we reintroduced shielding and stuck with the existing measures.

The Nightingales were built for exactly this eventuality and have never been used.

There is evidence that people would die when we can no longer afford to fund the NHS after tens of millions are unemployed following another lockdown.

There is also evidence that children would go hungry again, have their life expectancy reduced and that there would be deaths from suicide.

Ok, so your policy would be let it rip and just hope for the best that the nightingales manage to provide enough for the surplus patients. I am just curious because I don’t really understand the let it rip argument at all. And there are medical experts in the news today saying the nhs could be overwhelmed very soon, so I just wondered.

If it just runs, the NHS will be overwhelmed with older people who are likely to remain in a hospital bed for a long time

Which is why 1) older people should take extra care to avoid catching Covid and 2) we have the nightingale hospitals for added capacity if necessary.

But the majority of the population are going to have very mild symptoms or be asymptotic and should continue with their education or jobs.

@Chickenandrice

I don’t want to ‘let it rip’- I am happy to keep the current measures in place, accompanied by shielding.

Yes but sunflowers that is not working. Older people are catching it now (I assume not intentionally). I don’t think they can avoid it once it is endemic 🤷‍♀️

Sunflowers,

That is fantasy.

Shielding is not imprisonment, it is advisory.

Lots of the elderly work, do voluntary work or help with childcare. They also do have to go out sometimes. You cannot imprison the old for months.

And the nightingale hospitals have beds, not staff. Staff is the limiting feature. Intensive care was 4 beds to one nurse in April, a totally unsustainable situation.

Lots of the elderly work, do voluntary work or help with childcare. They also do have to go out sometimes. You cannot imprison the old for months

But in a lock down, they're not able to do voluntary work, or help with childcare, and can rarely go out - so what is the difference for them if they're locked down, or everyone is locked down?

In my opinion (for what it's worth) the measures that were implemented were only ever about controlling the spread to a level the NHS could cope with. It isn't going away, in the same way flu and colds don't, so we have got to just get on with it, really. Keep a reasonable distance from people as much as possible, wear a face covering when & where appropriate and wash hands regularly. Not that hard, really, but some seem to find it virtually impossible.

SirFred,

It is a time thing. A 2-3 week national lockdown clears the virus. The old would have to lockdown for a minimum of 6 months if the virus were allowed to explode.

And even then, how old is old? 60+? 50+? You are getting into a highly productive tax paying generation now.

What would the ‘young’ live on when many CEOs, senior lawyers etc stopped paying tax?

A 2-3 week national lockdown clears the virus

Do you actually have evidence for this, as I'm pretty sure I remember a lockdown?

Sir Fred,

It should clear it. I don’t know why it was so long. The incubation period is 5-7 days roughly (although the disease length is variable). Once those infected have infected those they are locked down with, and they have recovered, the disease is, in theory, done.

Of course, you could serially infect a household of 6, and that would take longer, but I imagine that is very rare.

China did a 76 day hard lockdown and eliminated the virus 100%.

But I imagine the vast majority occurs in the first 21 days. As we would not aim to eliminate the virus but keep it manageable, we are now talking of a 2 week ‘circuit breaker’.