Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

@Chickenandrice

In past pandemics life did come to a halt for years until they were over. Lockdowns did occur. We didn’t just live through as normal. I don’t know why people think this. We are only 7 months in to this pandemic. We can’t just pretend it isn’t there and things will magically return to normal just cos we want that to be the case

There's been various quarantines etc in the past (though all for diseases with much higher death rates - Covid has a lower death rate than the first iteration of the smallpox vaccine). Not sure there's ever been a national lockdown before with, e.g. the government forbidding you to visit your family in their own home. Do you have any examples?

They'll have to do more, at least in the hotspots where hospitals will be full soon.

We had one attempt at a overly long lockdown and no cure/treatment was found. We need a different strategy.

And that is -

Would you want a lockdown if you knew there was no money to support you? No furlough, no grants etc. I doubt it unless you are very privileged and have alternative source of income.

@Straven123

We had one attempt at a overly long lockdown and no cure/treatment was found. We need a different strategy.

And that is -

If you’d bothered to read the short post you’d have seen it. There needs to be (expensive) and targeted support for the most vulnerable and their dependents while allowing low risk individuals back to work and normal life.

@Coffeeandbeans

Would you want a lockdown if you knew there was no money to support you? No furlough, no grants etc. I doubt it unless you are very privileged and have alternative source of income.

This is most of this forum. Rich, privileged, protected. Happy of course for the working classes to go out to work and service their needs.

I think the government are also expecting people to take responsibility for their own actions. We aren't children and we know what to do to protect ourselves (as much as possible) from the virus. All it takes is for individuals to take a bit of responsibility.

Personally I don't feel the government can or should do anymore than they currently are

Many of the comments on this thread would be deleted from Facebook if reported or marked with a fake news warning on twitter.

The best protection you have now is to wear a mask and wear and remove it properly whenever you come into contact with people.

ONS
This is the link to the office of national statistics Covid round up of data (inc various other factors influenced by Covid)...as a pp said, there is a lag, because it uses info on death certs*. I think these figures, the rise in hospitalisations/ventilated patients and yes, the rise in cases (which will lead to the spread and rise) need to be looked at together...

...and the fact is they are going up.
Herd immunity without a vaccine, is a non starter, for all the reasons outlined by previous posters

• who is most at risk? (Over 70? Over 50? BAME? Underlying health conditions?)
• Ignoring the long term health implications of contracting Covid, even in young people
• how do you shield those most at risk (considering people at risk work, medically vulnerable children are at risk, multi generational living, the effect of 'locking up' the elderly
• we have no evidence of how effective it would be!

-without being able to ascertain who is most at risk there will be an awful lot of deaths and people living with the long term health implications of Covid

• there will still be an enormous impact on the economy and society

Etc There are ways we can live with the virus, suppressing it as much as possible...we need decent test and trace, social distancing, masks and reasonable restrictions in the areas of life where spread is most likely....we just seem to be doing these things too late and really badly.

*Tin foil hat conspiracists, who know a woman who lived next door to a man who went to a Dr who said they were paid to falsify death certs...you might want to look at something else.

@Katela18

I think the government are also expecting people to take responsibility for their own actions. We aren't children and we know what to do to protect ourselves (as much as possible) from the virus. All it takes is for individuals to take a bit of responsibility.

Personally I don't feel the government can or should do anymore than they currently are

Where they really though? People complied more than they expected early on. One of the reasons they were reluctant to lockdown is they didn't think British people would do it.

Yes, as they've opened things up over the summer they're relying on people following rules more than ever, but while schools and universities are fully open it's swimming against the tide because cases will be high.

If you don't have kids and don't work in a high risk job, you are highly unlikely to catch covid if you follow the rules.

The rest of us have to take our chances a bit. I can work at home etc but my ds goes to college most days.

However, what we need is a breakdown of the figures. Who was tested because they had symptoms? Who was tested randomly or because of contact tracing and didn't have symptoms? How many people need some sort of medical care? How many people need hospital care? How many ICU care? Without those figures, how can you make informed decisions about how serious the virus actually is? If most people either don't have symptoms or spend a few days in bed, we need a different approach.

I think the rules in my area of the country are adequate.

Some of the comments on this thread a unbelievable.

OP - your suggestion of a national lockdown isn’t practical.
The government are imposing local lockdowns in the worst affected areas (which soon enough ALL areas will be affected)
There’s measures in place to try and slow the spread, the issue is how much people pay attention to these.

A virus doesn’t spread itself, people spread viruses.
It’s that simple really.

A LOT of People are fed up, they want to go about their lives as normally as they possibly can whilst taking precautions to protect themselves, sensibly.
They will enjoy their lives and live.

A LOT of people just don’t care anymore, they are living as if the virus doesn’t exist, not following guidance. Most likely spreading the virus.

A LOT of people are living in fear, some quite understandably being in the high risk category.
Others, like yourself, who aren’t really that high risk, are locking themselves away, existing, waiting for some miraculous cure, or willing the government to impose a national lockdown in the hopes that the virus will disappear by the end of it.

Be sensible OP. Life has to go on.
I’m sure none of us want to catch it, but we can’t sit at home and let our lives pass us by.
We have no idea how long this situation will last, all we can do is make the best of it.

I'm fed up of restrictions. I don't think they're worth it and I'm extremely vulnerable or whatever it is. I go to work. I'm a key worker. I'm not in the slightest bit bothered and I'm not worried. Worse things have happened in my life, much , much worse and this situation really doesn't fuss me. It does currently as we are having to isolate while we wait for a test for a cold . And the upshot of this is both my kids are now fine but both off school and I'm off work meaning that am autistic child now doesn't have a teacher and I'm not completely sure that they will be able to go into school if I'm not there.
So no, it's not worth it. I follow the rules (I definitely wouldn't be isolating if I didn't ) but I'm not at all happy about it or the ramifications. Don't think it's worth it at all for what the fall out is in other areas

Really makes me laugh when people say they’re just getting on with their lives.... How?!?!

I’m in an area currently on the watch list, the next town is in local lockdown, this is where my mum lives.
She’s not allowed to my house or garden, I’m not allowed to hers.
We’ve had rain for the last week. We can’t meet for a walk because of that!
How can I live normally when I can’t even see my family!!

I’m not willing to sit in a busy coffee shop or restaurant and put myself at further risk, and the people that do this are obviously so low risk that they are more than happy to take their chances, because they know that they will almost certainly be fine!!!

It’s not living this really is it. It’s existing.

I’ve been working from home since March.
Haven’t seen any of my colleagues, haven’t had the usual office chatter and banter.
Just me alone in my spare bedroom, all day!!

@hahoohayou I support restrictions through the winter and people need to follow the them. The health service can't cope through a normal winter, let alone a Covid second wave and the risk of a bad flu season.

However, once we get into the Spring we need to get our lives back, if there's a vaccine 'oven ready' then you can maybe hang on till its rolled out, but otherwise we will have to get on with life. The problem is, people feel like that now and it's too soon in practical terms.

@bootsandcats08

I've been exactly the same. I've written off winter but we can't have another year or two like this. People have to take it seriously this winter though and they aren't. A lot of these people have had enjoyable summers as well; going off on foreign holidays, nights out on the town, days out at the beach, house parties, raves etc. These are often the people who won't comply now, yet those of us who've followed all the rules since March are still getting on with it. It's sheer selfishness.

I’m not willing to sit in a busy coffee shop or restaurant and put myself at further risk, and the people that do this are obviously so low risk that they are more than happy to take their chances, because they know that they will almost certainly be fine!!!

I don’t think that’s true at all. I’ve been out a couple of times and I’m higher risk. I’m not prepared to spend more months shut in my house doing nothing. You don’t have to go to a busy place. I wouldn’t go anywhere busy and I wouldn’t go anywhere only doing 1m social distancing either. I’ve been to a couple of places where I’ve been many metres away from everyone, masked up when servers came over, and it’s been fine. There’s a happy medium between sitting at home doing nothing and cramming into a busy pub. You can still go out sensibly

I am clinically vulnerable and so is my daughter... lockdown can fuck right off in my opinion. I'm left to my own devices each winter and I've not yet died of anything would you believe. I'm a responsible adult and know I need to wash my hands etc but I have had enough of all of it.

So I don't agree with you at all... I'm happy to take my chances in the big bad world. I would not comply with another lockdown.

[quote ifyourheartsonfire]@Downwithcovid

No symptoms, test positive, three weeks later hit by a car counts as a Covid death.

No it doesn’t. This was changed and the death count was amended to remove deaths that had been recorded like this.[/quote]
You're wrong.

The only thing that changed is that before this point the death would have been counted if it was more than 4 weeks after the test.

It’s beyond me why shielding has not been restarted and the small number of people who are actually at risk of hospitalisation and death are being expected to go out to work and school.

Vulnerable groups should be offered the opportunity to shield immediately. This, accompanied by the current measures, would get us through the winter.

I think also a lot of us (me anyway!) don’t have much context around the numbers. 400 getting admitted to hospital, that’s terrible! Of course it is. But - we are getting close to the point that in a usual winter 1000 people a day get admitted with flu. I had no idea of those numbers. And that’s where there’s a vaccine! What would it be without?

Now of course we can’t just take no measures as it is going to impact the NHS too much but equally hopefully flu numbers might go down this year due to Covid suppression measures. I suppose the point I’m making is the 400 cases sounds awful but that’s because I had no idea how many people are admitted to hospital generally

Absolutely- we need to run hospital capacity hot. Imo we should absolutely adopt the Chinese model of moving doctors and nurses where they’re needed across the country.

What we cannot have is a situation where Plymouth hospital is empty with staff sitting idle, while Birmingham Nightingale needs staff.

In China, healthcare workers are simply told what flight they’re getting across the country and what time to be at the airport. Clearly we should have a more compassionate system here, but I don’t think it’s impossible to do.

[quote ifyourheartsonfire]@Downwithcovid

No symptoms, test positive, three weeks later hit by a car counts as a Covid death.

No it doesn’t. This was changed and the death count was amended to remove deaths that had been recorded like this.[/quote]
Proof please. I think you are getting confused that the timescale was reduced to 28 days. My example still stands.

Whilst the government and the NHS concentrate on Covid-19 spare a thought for all the people who have been and are being denied treatment for life changing and ending conditions such as cancer. People just thrown under the bus.

Ecosse: that plan is going to go down a storm with doctors and nurses who happen to have home lives...

And shielding everyone vulnerable? I live in an area with hardly any cases (mega fingers crossed!!). What is the point of re-introducing shielding for me and others around here when the chances of contracting covid are extremely small. I am very cautious, but totally hiding in the house would be a waste of time (and money if that's what you're suggesting) in many areas of the country.