Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

The only relevant statistic is deaths and that is currently very low and also includes every death of any cause of the person has tested positive in the previous 28 days.

No symptoms, test positive, three weeks later hit by a car counts as a Covid death.

That, surely cannot be true? As if it is, then quite obviously 'covid deaths' would rise very quickly as more people tested positive, given many die from many causes everyday?

IF this is how the numbers are done, then I have no faith in them at all, as thats quite nonsensical? It stands to reason that as more people get positive tests, if that was how covid deaths are counted, then..we could have 0 deaths from/related to covid but thousands attributed TO covid through the way its done?

Obviously there won't be 0 covid deaths, but I am sure what I am saying makes sense

Also if thats how its done, there will surely be a inflated number of 'young covid deaths' in the near future, as testing ramps up and apparently its 'the young' mainly testing positive (not sure if thats true, got that from many MN posts so if its not, sorry), so even a small number of deaths in, for example car accidents, if put down as covid because of a test a month earlier, will massively distort the stats?

If this is the case, and I struggle to believe it is, then the only thing that can be 'trusted' as such is numbers hospitalised? But those would rise anyway in winter? Ugh.

@NRatched you'd better believe it's true. Until high summer they counted anyone who died who had EVER had a positive test. Hence why the death rate was recalculated and dropped substantially at that point.

@Straven123 agreed no one knows. But, it's reasonable to expect that those elected to government should at least TRY to help limit the number of deaths among citizens!

[quote musicalfrog]@NRatched you'd better believe it's true. Until high summer they counted anyone who died who had EVER had a positive test. Hence why the death rate was recalculated and dropped substantially at that point.[/quote]
This is correct. It’s bonkers.

People are dying “with Covid” no one reports how many people die “from Covid” and they are obviously two very different things.

[quote musicalfrog]@NRatched you'd better believe it's true. Until high summer they counted anyone who died who had EVER had a positive test. Hence why the death rate was recalculated and dropped substantially at that point.[/quote]
I find that totally bonkers.

I did know that thats how carehome deaths were being counted and can make a bit of sense from that if, say, the person has illnesses and starts getting more ill, has a test and its positive, then succumbs to the illness within a few weeks. As covid may have played a part in it given circumstances.

But if its across the general population and actually includes stuff like car accidents? Surely not..

Crosspost, but yeah, bonkers is indeed the word.

[quote paintmywholehousepink]@Straven123 agreed no one knows. But, it's reasonable to expect that those elected to government should at least TRY to help limit the number of deaths among citizens! [/quote]
Do you really think they aren’t?

Confirmed here. Used to be any positive test, now it’s 28 days.

Those figures are any death. So no symptoms but test positive as a result of contact tracing.

You feel completely ok and decide to use the free time isolating to go up a ladder and clear the gutters.

You fall off and die. That’s another Covid death right there.

Despite this the death figures are currently very low.

www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.bbc.com/news/amp/health-53722711

My understanding is that death certs mentioning covid as a cause of death give higher numbers. Yes the 28 days is a sketch - but it produces an underestimate.

The number of people falling off a ladder with covid and being counted will be minute.

The fact is, covid has been the cause of death for tens of thousands of people.

Yes a large percentage were old/towards the end of their life but a considerable number would have lived decades more if they hadn't caught covid.

Don't fall into the Trump/Johnson trap of not trusting the simple truth we can see with our own eyes. If Covid spreads unchecked, our health systems will break down and many many thousands more will die.

I do think people who believe that the government have some nefarious motive for restricting basic freedoms are truly bonkers.

Covid is not being ‘prioritised’ over everything else. We need to keep cases within a manageable level until we have either a vaccine or far better (and quicker) treatments. If we don’t, society will grind to a halt.

What are the alternatives?

I guess we could, theoretically, decide not to offer hospital treatment (at all) to those over a certain age (maybe 70?) and offer them a self administered lethal injection If the pain or fear overwhelmed them. In that way, I suppose, hospitals would not be overwhelmed and life could go on as normal, if we could ignore those elderly quietly dying among us.

But then what about the very fat? Would they deserve treatment? Or those vulnerable in other ways?

And, of course, who gets to decide in the marginal cases?

The above is probably pretty much how we got through previous pandemics (except without the option of self euthanasia) and kept life going.

Maybe, over time we could increase hospital capacity 5-19 fold to be able to cope. But how would we staff these hospitals?

I think that if the above situation does not appeal (and, although I suspect it would to many on here, it does not to me) we have no alternative but to keep cases down by taking precautions until vaccines/anti virals come along.

No, we don’t have many deaths right now, but 3% of hospital beds are occupied with Covid and, if this doubles fortnightly, we are only a few months away from being overwhelmed.

It is easy to blame the government (and they certainly have not helped themselves in this regard) but most of the World is struggling equally (Paris has just locked down).

@NRatched It's true for the PHE deaths figures (because they are done quickly - this is a measure that's fairly quick to calculate). ONS publish figures on deaths using the cause on the death certificate which are more reliable than the PHE figures, but have much more lag. In my opinion, the ONS ones are the only ones worth paying attention to.

Today it is announced that more than 17000 contacts of confirmed COVID-19 cases have not been traced Downing Street confirmed.

Isn’t that the point of the TRACK and TRACE? This is why numbers are rising.

Here is my local health department and how they test and what they count and don’t count: www.vdh.virginia.gov/coronavirus/about-the-data/

We had months of lockdown and no cure was found. Targeted protection while allowing the healthy to get back to work, earn money and pay taxes is the only way forward now.

The current strategy protects the middle classes who can WFH while throwing working classes (many of whom are older/vulnerable) and young people (who have almost no risk) under the bus.

@PracticingPerson

there’s only so much you can do to control a virus yes, quite, but the question is why the UK isn't doing the things it could be doing - for example bolstering local public health teams and supporting people to self-isolate. The government seems to have stopped trying to protect both health and the economy.

Yes true, and as I said they are useless. But the OP reads as if she somehow expects the government to totally fix it which is just not possible.

I'm still not convinced herd immunity , whilst protecting the most vulnerable, wasn't our best bet.

Why do people seem so convinced that we/government can do anything? If we think we can protect ourselves through restrictions we'll have to carry on like this for years, what other horrors will that bring and hiw much are we prepared to accept?.

Historically we have a very good record of controlling disease but it takes decades/centuries to get a new one under control.

[quote Racoonworld]@bootsandcats08 are you in a job that hasn’t been affected by lockdown? Thousands have lost their jobs, thousands more have had their income cut. People can’t afford another lockdown and the government know this. There isn’t a lot they can do really. We need to live with this virus like we live with all the others, it isn’t fair to wreck so many lives when the majority aren’t at risk from COVID.[/quote]
@Racoonworld

I was furloughed for 5 months!!!

@Racoonworld

Posted too soon.

I was furloughed for 5 months!! Even I agree that there should be a lockdown.

Excellent post by larrygrylls. Those saying life needs to get back to normal have just not thought it through at all.

Dailylotiin the government have explained why we can’t go for herd immunity and protect the vulnerable. The vulnerable live in the same society as all of us. Some have children’s fun work and the older and unwell require hospital care or require people to live with them to care for them. So you can’t stick them in a magic bubble and leave them there for a couple of years. Also it is expected that immunity won’t last anyway. Even boris understands these facts

In past pandemics life did come to a halt for years until they were over. Lockdowns did occur. We didn’t just live through as normal. I don’t know why people think this. We are only 7 months in to this pandemic. We can’t just pretend it isn’t there and things will magically return to normal just cos we want that to be the case

[quote ifyourheartsonfire]@Racoonworld

Posted too soon.

I was furloughed for 5 months!! Even I agree that there should be a lockdown.[/quote]
You was lucky to be furloughed and then return to your job. The government cant afford to furlough on the same scale again so if we locked down again how sure are you that you'd still have your job again at the end of it?

@Chickenandrice

Excellent post by larrygrylls. Those saying life needs to get back to normal have just not thought it through at all.

Life needs to get back to normal for the low risk. They need to be able to work and pay towards the economy that keeps the taxes coming in. They are very unlikely to require hospitalisation.

There needs to be targeted support for the high risk to prevent them contracting the virus and overwhelming the health service. Until hopefully a vaccine is found or treatment is available which prevents deterioration.

The current strategy of pursuing lockdowns protects the middle classes by allowing them to WFH in a protective bubble. It throws the working classes (who are often older and less healthy) who cannot WFH and therefore high risk of either contracting Covid or losing their job- under the bus. It throws the younger generation (who have a very low risk) who have been unable to access education or their first job under the bus.

We had one attempt at a overly long lockdown and no cure/treatment was found. We need a different strategy.

@Downwithcovid

No symptoms, test positive, three weeks later hit by a car counts as a Covid death.

No it doesn’t. This was changed and the death count was amended to remove deaths that had been recorded like this.