Why aren’t the government doing more?! Are they trying to achieve herd immunity?!

[bootsandcats08]

Why the heck aren’t the government doing more? Don’t you think it’s getting ridiculous now?!

UK to has had the highest cases in Europe!
Are we supposed to just live like RBI’s now? Accept it?!

Surely this is much much worse than in March and back then a lockdown was imposed!! Why aren’t they doing more?!

Are they trying to just achieve some sort of herd immunity???

Flu vs Covid figures

But I imagine the vast majority occurs in the first 21 days. As we would not aim to eliminate the virus but keep it manageable, we are now talking of a 2 week ‘circuit breaker’.

As long as our borders are open and people from abroad aren't tested (unlike in many other countries), none of your suggested measures will have much effect.

Haven’t rtft

But it’s a balance between economy and health

The only thing we can do us walk along a tightrope

It’s awful and I certainly don’t want more restrictions but can see they are probably happening

Sunflowers,

This is just an assertion.

I suspect that infection from abroad is a tiny proportion of community transmission (unless you can show me evidence to the contrary?).

The incubation period is 5-7 days roughly (although the disease length is variable)

No, the incubation periods can be much longer than this, we know of a 20 day example in New Zealand.

So again, where is your evidence, any intervention requires evidence of its efficacy and of the side effects, but you cannot give them, just anecdotes, people locked in their houses in Wuhan for 76 days, and various lockdowns of different lengths in Europe and beyond all demonstrate I think that a 2-3 week lock down will not eliminate the virus.

So next you need to show it will have a beneficial effect - it seems obvious that reducing transmission for a bit would be a good thing - but what if it encourages risky behaviour immediately before or immediately after? what if by locking vulnerable in with infected family members increases viral loads and increases household transmission leading to worse outcomes?

We need evidence, not assertions that it's a good thing.

@sirfredfredgeorge

A 2-3 week national lockdown clears the virus

Do you actually have evidence for this, as I'm pretty sure I remember a lockdown?

I’m not getting how you get to clearing the virus in two to three weeks

Melbourne had a fairly strict lockdown with lower numbers than us for two months

Keep a reasonable distance from people as much as possible, wear a face covering when & where appropriate and wash hands regularly. Not that hard, really, but some seem to find it virtually impossible.

It's not virtually impossible for me, it's actually impossible at work.
I am a TA , same applies to teachers and many other school workers.

A 2-3 week national lockdown clears the virus

This assumes that everyone adheres to the lockdown rules. I fear that many people now won't as they don't worry the virus very much anymore (given so many asymptotic mild cases). And more importantly, they're worried about losing their jobs!

Even if people follow the rules it doesn’t clear it.

I’m not sure where this has come from.

A 2-3 week lockdown does not clear the virus. Countries that have had stricter and longer lockdowns than us have not cleared the virus. Unless you stop EVERYONE from going out - including emergency workers - you cannot clear the virus. And that isn't possible.

It’s a bizarre claim. Bit of a curve ball at this stage of the game

No,

A 2-3 week lockdown does not clear it, but it does reduce it by about 2/3, to manageable levels, maybe more in a hard lockdown.

I don’t need to prove this to any of you. This is an Internet forum. None of us are very important!

However, the government and their advisors happen to agree with me (as it is, actually, correct) and you do have to listen to them until we have an election.

So Forman anti lockdown party and, you never know, you might be elected (i am not betting on it).

Larry can you link to a source re advisors?

Anything that backs up the 2/3 claim that is

@larrygrylls

No,

A 2-3 week lockdown does not clear it, but it does reduce it by about 2/3, to manageable levels, maybe more in a hard lockdown.

I don’t need to prove this to any of you. This is an Internet forum. None of us are very important!

However, the government and their advisors happen to agree with me (as it is, actually, correct) and you do have to listen to them until we have an election.

So Forman anti lockdown party and, you never know, you might be elected (i am not betting on it).

I want whatever you're smoking

So say we do this 2/3 week lockdown, then we open things back up and cases rise again just as they are doing now. Then what?

The general consensus is the government are doing too much not enough . People bleating on about not being muzzled and their human rights etc. Encouraging others to break the rules .

People seem to forget this is world wide not just the uk and the WHO even keep changing their minds because we are learning as we go along

Perhaps the country should just vote on three options

Proper full lockdown with fines ( like some other countries ) .
No lockdown at all just live with it ( don’t quote Sweden as their death rate per 100000 is equivalent to ours and they did not have complete freedom
Or somehow protect the most vunerable until a vaccine is available .

ALL of these options have potential problems .

@bootsandcats08

Really makes me laugh when people say they’re just getting on with their lives.... How?!?!

I’m in an area currently on the watch list, the next town is in local lockdown, this is where my mum lives.
She’s not allowed to my house or garden, I’m not allowed to hers.
We’ve had rain for the last week. We can’t meet for a walk because of that!
How can I live normally when I can’t even see my family!!

I’m not willing to sit in a busy coffee shop or restaurant and put myself at further risk, and the people that do this are obviously so low risk that they are more than happy to take their chances, because they know that they will almost certainly be fine!!!

It’s not living this really is it. It’s existing.

I’ve been working from home since March.
Haven’t seen any of my colleagues, haven’t had the usual office chatter and banter.
Just me alone in my spare bedroom, all day!!

Because we are ignoring the rules that don't make sense and stick to the ones that do. For example, I have seen my family inside and even hugged them. Shock and horror, I know, but they live far away and I haven't seen them in over a year so.

JKRowkingIsMyQueen...... I think you may have misinterpreted something that you’ve read.

A 2-3 week lockdown would reduce levels of the virus, yes. But what do you think happens after that?

Sirfredfredgeorge -
You could look at it the other way. What is the evidence that not locking down will not lead to the disastrous scenes in Wuhan or north Italy in March?

Sometimes waiting for good evidence means that you miss the boat and the end up in a bigger mess. Some of the countries that have kept the epidemic u see good control took quick decisive action - without good evidence but being mindful of worst case scenarios.

You could look at it the other way

Interventions that remove rights and freedoms and are known to cause harm require evidence, whatever you think lockdown is not harmless. So an argument for balance of harms needs to be made, I'm sure it could be made, but it needs to made with evidence provided.

'A 2-3 week lockdown would reduce levels of the virus, yes. But what do you think happens after that?'

You keep going through cycles of unlocking and locking, to keep the average r of 1 over time, until we get a vaccine.

No fun, but better than the alternative.

And if no effective vaccine comes, Larry?

SitFred,

There is plenty of evidence, which virtually every government in the world is viewing every day.

it is all out there.

This is the first pandemic for over 100 years, and the first in a globally connected society, so nothing is certain,

You keep saying an argument needs to be made, and it is has been made. You just disagree with it.