We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

@notevenat20 follow the latest research which is coming out. Age 10+ as infectious as 20-29. Hence schools are considered to contribute to community infection in many countries and are shutting eg Germany in places and New York. The studies are easy to google.

It’s political that the problem but don’t be gaslighted by our Government.

follow the latest research which is coming out. Age 10+ as infectious as 20-29

Can you link to your favourite study that says this?

@Oaktree55

It’s mind boggling that masks aren’t mandatory in schools. PHE has now last week recognised formally the virus is airborne, which feeds into H&S Legislation. Schools are work places as well as so it should mean that more sensible measures are introduced including masks given there’s a criminal liability for H&S breaches.

I thought that masks in schools would help but having seen adults unable to wear a mask correctly for 20 minutes while they do the supermarket shop, I think that masks in schools will become pointless. Some will wear the same mask for days, others will touch them and smear virus onto their mask while others wear them incorrectly (nose poking out, on chin...)

As someone said earlier, get back to basics and enforce the rules. If the government is serious about controlling the virus send schools the results of COVID tests so pupils who should be at home stay at home. They need to sort the testing system urgently so people can get back to work/education rather than be forced to isolate 14 days because of a lack of tests.

I've not seen it reported about schools shutting in Germany. Do you have a link?

I did see it reported that in certain districts in NY they have shut again. Not blanket closure though.

I would support masks in school. Especially secondary school. My kids are primary age but even then if it was introduced then we would comply.

I hate wearing a mask as a teacher but I couldn't imagine teaching without one in the current context. Where I live, all students have to wear a mask in school and it does make sense given that it is an enclosed space (except the playground, they have to wear it there too though).
We have plenty of SEN kids who are ok with wearing a mask so I find the whole SEN excuse 'I can't wear a mask'a bit weak.
What's the alternative? Don't go in with a mask, have a cluster and then do the online stuff for weeks because wearing a mask is distressing?
Bullshit. Stop being so wet. Wear a mask in school all the time. It's shit and I don't like it either. But it's way better than online learning.
And don't get me wrong, I hate masks.

There's load we could do.

Close non essential sport
Close pubs and clubs
Stop houses visiting each other
Close soft plays, trampoline parks etc.
Move more uni learning online.
Stop holidays
Stop non essential shops

I'd do all of the above before seeing exam years and primary kids at home again.

@notevenat20 it’s all on Twitter search for it and read up. Evidence re children/adolescents has been difficult to untangle mostly because they aren’t tested. However it’s coming to light mostly from other countries as our Government is too remiss right set up any proper surveillance.

@flowerycurtain
We can't disproportionately impact on the childless to that extent without facing bigger issues as a society. Whether some parents like it or not we need to look at placing some restrictions on everyone including children rather than placing an unreasonable level on restrictions on some that are destroying the mental health and prospects of an entire generation while hardly impacting others. There is literally no point in protecting education if we put people on the scrapheap the second they leave it in order to do so which would be the outcome of what you are suggesting.

[quote StatisticalSense]@flowerycurtain
We can't disproportionately impact on the childless to that extent without facing bigger issues as a society. Whether some parents like it or not we need to look at placing some restrictions on everyone including children rather than placing an unreasonable level on restrictions on some that are destroying the mental health and prospects of an entire generation while hardly impacting others. There is literally no point in protecting education if we put people on the scrapheap the second they leave it in order to do so which would be the outcome of what you are suggesting.[/quote]
Yet that is exactly what has happened when people voted for Brexit.

I mean disproportionately impacted some in the community.

@StatisticalSense exactly! I don’t know what people expect these school leavers/University Leavers to do once they’ve left to a decimated economy. People are so blinkered and short sighted. The economic implications of what’s happened to date will reverberate enough to affect kids with exams nearing anyway.

We need a more balanced approach without militantly just saying education has to continue as we are used to. For what purpose?

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince
" Be only allowed out for one hour a day " Erm how do we do the school run then? I live super close so we walk, but even so it takes 20 minutes there and 20 minutes back without waiting, plus I have to go out twice.

@Oaktree55
Most of those calling for that approach are either stay at home parents or in extremely well paid and secure employment that they believe wouldn't be impacted by the economy crashing and simply don't care about the impact on others (even their own children in the long term) if it means the impact on them personally is lesser. Unfortunately most of these people cannot grasp the concept that childless people or those on low incomes actually have to go to work to get paid or that businesses cannot hibernate indefinitely because they can be paid to work from home (or in many cases pretend to work from home) and only really interact with others in a similar position or on occasion with people running hobby businesses that have never and will never generate a profit and which the owners don't care about.

1 hour for exercise....

@StatisticalSense I have to go to work to get paid. I won't be able to do that if school shuts.

Sod giving up what's left of my social life so kids can go to school.

Not happening!

@flirtingwith40 😆at least you’re honest

What I take issue with is the lack of honesty. If people said I want schools open full time as I can’t stand the little sh* at home etc then fine I have no issue.

Don’t though harp on about Education and mental health when setting the majority of kids up to leave to a decimated job market or call for a situation where many kids will end up with unemployed or otherwise affected family members.

Don’t harp on about kids mental health if keeping schools open means in school holidays they (and teaching staff) are unable to do anything as we’ve locked down everything to enable 100% full time schooling for all. I actually thought the rumoured circuit breaker over Half Term is pretty sad for kids/families just so they can go straight back to school then the same/worse over xmas?!? Personally think there’s more of a mental health impact on kids not being able to mix with friends/extended family say in school holidays. We’ve lost all perspective or are totally brainwashed into thinking schools offer everything. They can’t at present and shouldn’t either. Think about what will be facing them the other side.

Don’t also fall for the Gov figures re schools not increasing transmission.

Just some honesty please.

@flirtingwith40

Sod giving up what's left of my social life so kids can go to school.

Not happening!

Yes exactly this! It’s not just kids suffering, at least they’ve had a month of normality which is more than the rest of us have had.

If people want to stay cooped up at home to do school then the option is there.

If dc enjoy being back great. It’s good to see. We have low incidence even in high population so no closures yet.

I think it’s a bit pathetic to say ‘it’s not just kids that matter’. No, it’s not. That’s why schools were closed for months to protect older people. But if your coping skills are lower than those of the average 8 year old, you have an issue.

@CarrotInATree
It's not about whether an adult should be able to cope better than an 8 year old if they were both faced with the same level of restrictions, but more rather whether an 8 year old could cope with lesser restrictions more than an adult could cope with greater restrictions or whether an 8 year old could cope better without schooling than if they were basically banned from doing anything outside of school.

@MarshaBradyo the option isn’t there though is it? Not for those who don’t want to deregister.

My point is soon it’s likely we’ll have a no mixing outside of households. When does this reach the point that it’s actually more detrimental on kids. I remember school and know from my own mixing with their friends outside of school is far more fun for them!

[quote Oaktree55]@MarshaBradyo the option isn’t there though is it? Not for those who don’t want to deregister.

My point is soon it’s likely we’ll have a no mixing outside of households. When does this reach the point that it’s actually more detrimental on kids. I remember school and know from my own mixing with their friends outside of school is far more fun for them![/quote]
We can’t do indoor play dates anyway anymore. From the school. You can play outside of course but that should stay. Outside stuff is important.

People prefer different things, including dc, they find school enjoyable with friends over on screen, so prefer to go.

@MarshaBradyo are you in Scotland then? As far as I’m aware (I know the rules are confusing) the rule of six applies to England and doesn’t prevent indoor play dates as long as 6 isn’t breached?

Oaktree no London. It’s just school guidance plus masks at pick up and no hanging around.

The pta brought it in after people asked how to help staff feel safer. Seems fine everyone’s going along with stuff. Not sure how much it helps but we haven’t had any closures yet.