We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

Our children’s future and education can’t be sacrificed and that’s it. While the pubs stay open, restaurants etc it shouldn’t even be a conversation.

And what about the children who's parents work in hospitality? Do you not think that tanking the economy will have an impact on children's futures or education?

I don't think anyone wants the schools to shut, but keeping them open as they are at all costs is not working.
If we keep them open the kids are going to end up doing blended learning anyway because of bubbles bursting. Why not as a country just accept that's the way it's going to be this year and create a proper plan for it.

No one wants children's futures to be at stake but I also don't want to throw away my business, not see any family or friends and decimate my mental health for a system where kids are being sent home left right and centre anyway.

Schools and universities need to stay open at all costs. End of. We cannot sacrifice our children’s futures like this

Yeah, all others are expendable - let the schools remain open though the heavens may fall

@Snoringferret

Our children’s future and education can’t be sacrificed and that’s it. While the pubs stay open, restaurants etc it shouldn’t even be a conversation.

And what about the children who's parents work in hospitality? Do you not think that tanking the economy will have an impact on children's futures or education?

I don't think anyone wants the schools to shut, but keeping them open as they are at all costs is not working.
If we keep them open the kids are going to end up doing blended learning anyway because of bubbles bursting. Why not as a country just accept that's the way it's going to be this year and create a proper plan for it.

No one wants children's futures to be at stake but I also don't want to throw away my business, not see any family or friends and decimate my mental health for a system where kids are being sent home left right and centre anyway.

This! Totally agree

@expatinspain
Of course it needs to be part of the conversation. Now there is concrete evidence that the effect on the spread of the virus of schools is several magnitudes larger than the effect of pubs the previous conversations onto the priorities have to be disregarded. There is no point in having parts of the economy closed that could be safely open in order to follow statements that other industries that simply cannot be opened safely whatever other restrictions are in place are a higher priority.

Ultimately it will become a choice between keeping people who work in hospitality and beauty (pubs, restos, hotels, beauty salons, maybe even hair dressers) fed and watered, or keeping children physically in school. I had virtual training for a new job myself during wfh lockdown so not sure what makes it so hard for teachers to teach kids remotely, if UK kids unlike the Spanish ones discussed before here are unable to wear masks? Most kids are familiar with watching iPads or computer screens as is.

Still not hearing any suggestions of what parents who can't work from home are meant to do in the event of school closures.

Still not hearing any suggestions of what parents who can't work from home are meant to do in the event of school closures.

But the schools never fully closed, even in the very height of lockdown schools were open for key workers children.

The issue seems to be that the bubbles are too big.

If we planned for a way where the children who could work from home did so part time that would take some pressure off.

I really don't want schools to close but I think that's it's the insistence that schools stay open in the same format as they always have that's strangling us.

I don't think what we have now is fair on anyone.

I think roadblocking areas with low rates and requiring quarantine to enter, would be good in low infection areas. The people in high infection areas could have increased restrictions, schools closed for a short time, but also increased furlough.

@YogiBearcub

Ultimately it will become a choice between keeping people who work in hospitality and beauty (pubs, restos, hotels, beauty salons, maybe even hair dressers) fed and watered, or keeping children physically in school. I had virtual training for a new job myself during wfh lockdown so not sure what makes it so hard for teachers to teach kids remotely, if UK kids unlike the Spanish ones discussed before here are unable to wear masks? Most kids are familiar with watching iPads or computer screens as is.

I think it’s some parents who want the free childcare or to not have to supervise schooling rather than it not able to be done.

It would be far better to keep the economy going and remote school as education can be done anywhere, gaps can be caught up on etc and children need an economy more than physical presence in a classroom.

Theres been two cases in a school if 1000 where my kids are and both were community transmissions, ie caught outside school. And that's after six weeks. Schools aren't the problem. Universities on the other hand seem to be much more of an issue.

Oh and I cant work from home and home school three kids. I'm not classed as a key worker so not eligible for a school place so if the schools shut I lose my job anyway. There are many parents in the same position.

Oh and I cant work from home and home school three kids. I'm not classed as a key worker so not eligible for a school place so if the schools shut I lose my job anyway. There are many parents in the same position.

Millions I would guess. Also, there is something oddly contradictory in people in one breath talking about the professionalism and expertise of teachers and in another suggesting we can just as well teach them the full school syllabus at home.

Still not hearing any suggestions of what parents who can't work from home are meant to do in the event of school closures.

Not only that, but also parents who can’t imitate a school teacher convincingly to three children of different ages.

so not sure what makes it so hard for teachers to teach kids remotely

Presumably you didn't need an adult watching over you 24/7 because THAT is the problem for many. We are a two parent working family. How do I homeschool D's who is 4 at the same time?

StatisticalSense The 'evidence' changes like the wind and varies depending on which studies you read. A fairly large study and a second smaller study has shown that children of
primary age are six times less likely to spread the virus, so there is at least an argument for primary schools staying open. I just don't see how schools with precautionary measures in place; social distancing, half sanitizing etc, can be more dangerous than groups of pissed people in bars not adhering to any kind of measures at all. It may come to kids having to wear masks at school, like in other countries, but schools need to stay open. Children need social interaction, as well as a face-to-face learning environment. Not everyone has a good family life, parents who can supervise their learning at home, access to computers/inter-bet or siblings for some level of social interaction.

Presumably you didn't need an adult watching over you 24/7 because THAT is the problem for many. We are a two parent working family. How do I homeschool D's who is 4 at the same time?

The traditional solution is that the woman loses her job. Grrr.

@Snoringferret I'm not a key worker. I can't work from home. The world isn't split into key workers and everyone else can work from home. School was closed to my DS as I'm not a key worker.

Wax

I wasn't saying that it was, I was just pointing out that we talk about school closures but they never fully closed in the first place.

Currently sitting on a bus now on my way to work with 15 school children on it. I’ve counted 5 wearing a mask, why should I loose my job and home for them to have an education when they won’t have the decency to do what’s asked.

And before anyone says exempt the driver was asking them and when they sat down I heard them laughing about it saying he can’t force them.

And the "free childcare" comments are so boring and don't actually solve the problem. Like it or not, people work while their kids are at school.

Snoring well, no, they were open to key worker children. But that doesn't help non key workers who also need to work.

Human lives before school.

I wasn't saying that it was, I was just pointing out that we talk about school closures but they never fully closed in the first place.

They fully closed for the vast majority of people and education at school stopped for everyone as far as I know. A number of individual schools shut completely and your DC would then have to go to a strange school with a handful of unknown key workers and at risk children.

well, no, they were open to key worker children. But that doesn't help non key workers who also need to work.

And hardly that. We all got letters from the school heavily suggesting we shouldn’t send our children to school even if we were key workers.

Snoring well, no, they were open to key worker children. But that doesn't help non key workers who also need to work.

But why does it have to be as black and white as that?
Surely there's a middle ground between having them only open to key workers and enforcing everyone to go in all the time and pushing on with pre pandemic systems when they're not working.

Can we not allow the kids who can work from home to do that part time and rotate them to keep bubbles smaller and rotate them?
We should also pay for more teaching assistants, so even though they'd be in school less they'd get more support from staff.