We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

But why does it have to be as black and white as that?

Fundamentally because working full time is black and white.

@notevenat20 yes, my friend is a key worker and also a lone parent. She was pressured by her son's school to use grandparents for childcare for half the week rather than sending her DS in. Grandparents the people we are meant to be protecting.

@JaggyJumper

Currently sitting on a bus now on my way to work with 15 school children on it. I’ve counted 5 wearing a mask, why should I loose my job and home for them to have an education when they won’t have the decency to do what’s asked.

And before anyone says exempt the driver was asking them and when they sat down I heard them laughing about it saying he can’t force them.

Yup. Secondary teacher here. Have had kids try to close windows in classrooms and doors while I'm not looking, I'm trying to ventilate the classroom for all of us (as much as possible when the windows only open a couple of cm, told them they can wear coats)...I'm not going to martyr myself for them. Bugger that.

Snoring I've seen that suggested on here and there was an outcry from SAHPs who didn't think their children should miss out on being at school just because they didn't work. I agree that parents should be given the option though.

Yup. Secondary teacher here. Have had kids try to close windows in classrooms and doors while I'm not looking, I'm trying to ventilate the classroom for all of us (as much as possible when the windows only open a couple of cm, told them they can wear coats)...I'm not going to martyr myself for them. Bugger that.

If wear a mask yourself on the bus that should help.

Oops. Scrap my previous post, it went to the wrong place.

Fundamentally because working full time is black and white.

But not everybody works full time.

I've seen that suggested on here and there was an outcry from SAHPs who didn't think their children should miss out on being at school just because they didn't work. I agree that parents should be given the option though.

I don't think they should miss out, but if we invested in more staff and made teachers and teaching assistants lives more pleasant so there wasn't such a high turnover or people being on the sick due to stress we could allow some students to go part time and rotate them.

I don't see the point in them being in school for the sake of it when the stress is so high it's impacting on everyone's well being.

I think we need to temporarily overhaul the educational experience to make the best of this.

@PineappleUpsideDownCake

Id rather part time school and making school safer and more sustainable over shutting economy down while it spreads in school.

Yes exactly. Schools re-open and things have gone crazy again. Local lockdowns haven't worked, cases have actually risen there. Schools seem to be the problem.

Yes exactly. Schools re-open and things have gone crazy again. Local lockdowns haven't worked, cases have actually risen there. Schools seem to be the problem.

You don't think it is widespread self-justified breaking of the rules?

But apparently the masks stop you spreading it not stopping you from catching it from others. Also it’s not the virus I’m bothered about catching, it’s the possibility of loosing my home for peoples education who don’t care about others

But apparently the masks stop you spreading it not stopping you from catching it from others.

That guidance changed over the Summer. It is now thought to protect you too.

It's inevitable that some schools will close due to lack of staff. The whole "back to school plan" was a mess from the start. The bubbles are far too big.

Johnson should have coughed up extra cash for more teachers and TAs.

My friend has the app on her phone and it told her this morning she has been close to someone and should isolate. She phoned her HT who said it was one of the children and she should still go in.

That can't be right, can it?

@user1472151176

I agree, schools need to stay open. If people actually stopped socialising, as being asked, then it probably would work in slowing down the infections. No one wants to stop seeing their family, I get that, especially when mental health issues are so high right now. I've stopped seeing my family (which also isn't great for my mental health or my children who miss their grandparents immensely!) but I hate the thought of the chance of giving covid to my parents. I don't think I'd recover from that.

How do you think a child who brings the virus home to a vulnerable parent would feel? For schools to remain open far more mitigation is needed including much smaller bubbles. The government don't want to pay for this though

How do you think a child who brings the virus home to a vulnerable parent would feel?

I am a vulnerable parent and really, it's a risk that you take. I don't stop DC from seeing their friends on the weekend either.

@notevenat20

Yes exactly. Schools re-open and things have gone crazy again. Local lockdowns haven't worked, cases have actually risen there. Schools seem to be the problem.

You don't think it is widespread self-justified breaking of the rules?

There are several thing going on. Schools being back have coincided with a significant rise in cases yet this is being ignored by the government and msm. It has become the elephant in the room. This leads to mistrust in the government. Mixed messages and chopping and changing leads to mistrust in the government. The government stating schools and workplaces are safe but Aunties garden isn't leads to further mistrust. The downplaying that covid is caused by aerosols.

The government needs to stop treating the public like children and be honest and transparent.
A lot of people are no longer prepared to stick to the rules because they make little sense.

The government wants people to travel on packed buses to work with lots of people, wants children in schools in huge bubbles but doesn't want them to see family. It doesn't make sense and people will not wear it.

Local lockdowns in the North are not working for these reasons and further restrictions will not work.

A short sharp lockdown may help whist they sort out test track and trace but silly buzzwords and ever changing guidance seems to be all this government can offer.

@notevenat20

How do you think a child who brings the virus home to a vulnerable parent would feel?

I am a vulnerable parent and really, it's a risk that you take. I don't stop DC from seeing their friends on the weekend either.

I am assuming you are not in a local lockdown area @notevenat20? Would you feel the same if you were? I have sent my dd to school but with 500+ cases per 100000 it is getting scary. She is mixing in schools with people whose families are not following the rules and that is worrying. An option to temporarily home school would be useful but I would still be conflicted as she is so happy being back in school It didn't need to be like this. The government had months to come up with a workable plan on schools and to set up an effective test, track and trace and they have failed. I am so cross.

I really don't know what the answer is though 😀

I would like better mitigation in schools. No one wants to go back to schools being closed for months.
The main issue for me is that people just seem to think it is no longer a risk and are going about their business as normal.
Closing pups will just drive people into private homes.
The lack of compliance in the north is shocking and local lock down isn't working.
It is a mess.

@Foobydoo

I agree except I worry about what mitigation would mean exactly and how effective it would be in practice.

Schools being back have coincided with a significant rise in cases yet this is being ignored by the government and msm.

It's not really true. If you look at hospitalisations in the NW for example, they started going up on August 26. It looks like lots of children are getting infected but it is probably not the case that they were the cause of this second wave.

Can someone answer me something I don't understand about the Northumbria University outbreak?

So out of 770 only 70 have symptoms, so why were the others tested??? I thought you were only supposed to be tested if you had symptoms even if you were a close contact? I thought if you were a close contact you needed to isolate but only get a test if you had symptoms?

Why are they testing asymptomatic people? And is it a case that they're finding more because they're testing more?

I'm starting to feel like Trump saying that you can't have an outbreak if you don't test that's not what I mean though, I'm just trying to figure out what's going on.

Wrong thread sorry!!

Maybe the old people and the people who have health issues should make the sacrifice of shielding for a few months and let the younger people get on with it. I am a 70 year old person not a young person. This is my grandchildrens future we are talking about. Their social and mental health mean more to me than me being able to nip to the shops or out for a coffee whenever I want. Life has to go on, we have to think of our childrens futute. We have to get the economy back on track or we are all doomed. Prioritise delivery slots for us and telephone calls from volunteers etc. A few months of being socially isolated isnt going to kill us, but it may just save the future for you younger people.

[quote notevenat20]@Foobydoo

I agree except I worry about what mitigation would mean exactly and how effective it would be in practice.

Schools being back have coincided with a significant rise in cases yet this is being ignored by the government and msm.

It's not really true. If you look at hospitalisations in the NW for example, they started going up on August 26. It looks like lots of children are getting infected but it is probably not the case that they were the cause of this second wave.[/quote]
I am outing myself a but here but cases have risen significantly in my area since schools opened.
I agree they began rising in August but thiscwas fairly slowly. They have snowballed since September.
Ist pic from 4th September 2nd from 2nd Oct. Source: Covid messenger.

@sadblackcat

Maybe the old people and the people who have health issues should make the sacrifice of shielding for a few months and let the younger people get on with it. I am a 70 year old person not a young person. This is my grandchildrens future we are talking about. Their social and mental health mean more to me than me being able to nip to the shops or out for a coffee whenever I want. Life has to go on, we have to think of our childrens futute. We have to get the economy back on track or we are all doomed. Prioritise delivery slots for us and telephone calls from volunteers etc. A few months of being socially isolated isnt going to kill us, but it may just save the future for you younger people.

How do we practically shield 25% of the population though? Who would do the jobs of the people who work, pay for their income, take on their caring responsibilities? You personally might not need any medical treatment over the next few months but a lot of others would, so how do we make it safe for them to leave their homes to get that? What about people who live with others who aren’t ‘the vulnerable’, do we move them out to somewhere else?

I have a relative in his 80s who lives alone, has a network of family who sorted out food delivery for him and phoned him and visited to wave to him through the windows. Only person who went into his house from March was his carer, who he couldn’t function without. Guess who gave him Covid! He recovered, thankfully - but if we couldn’t even protect him during lockdown, what hope do we have of protecting everybody who’d count as ‘vulnerable’ if we’re letting the virus rip?

We can’t get the economy back on track until we control the virus.

I agree they began rising in August but thiscwas fairly slowly. They have snowballed since September.
Ist pic from 4th September 2nd from 2nd Oct.

That may be an illusion. In the NW at least the doubling rate has been almost exactly constant since August. See the attached pic.