We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

@Notfeelinggreattoday
That is exactly why I believe complete closure and fully open are the only 2 options when it comes to schooling. Unfortunately the evidence is now increasingly showing that fully open is not sustainable so it is time for a managed transition back to supported online learning. Lessons should have been learnt from the previous lockdown in terms of getting resources to pupils without internet access and in terms of understanding that teachers cannot be involved in looking after the vulnerable children who need to continue in person attendance whilst also teaching online so the whole process should be much smoother than the first time around.

@Notfeelinggreattoday
For those currently in year 11 I believe the solution mostly lies in interactive online learning of the examinable syllabus for most subjects combined with the dropping of less essential subjects such as RE to allow more time to be spent on exam technique and teaching of the most important subjects such as English and Maths.

@Disconnect in some contact sports there are very clear guidance
My ds do rugby and there are many rules
My ds school here aren't really doing much sport just football
My eldest is at college doing a sports course and again little sport being done and this year was all about coaching and should be a lot of interaction but all not happening and his rugby at college has not resumed and no plans as yet .
Ds also plays football and again there are certain guidance although not as strict as rugby i would say

They should allow people to home school or do remote learning. My cousins in the States were given the choice, in person or fully remote. The 20% or so who went fully remote have created more space for the rest to have social distancing.

[quote StatisticalSense]@Notfeelinggreattoday
That is exactly why I believe complete closure and fully open are the only 2 options when it comes to schooling. Unfortunately the evidence is now increasingly showing that fully open is not sustainable so it is time for a managed transition back to supported online learning. Lessons should have been learnt from the previous lockdown in terms of getting resources to pupils without internet access and in terms of understanding that teachers cannot be involved in looking after the vulnerable children who need to continue in person attendance whilst also teaching online so the whole process should be much smoother than the first time around.[/quote]
So how do I support my kids learning plus work?

Or should I resign? From my viable job?

Which would have a serious financial impact on our household.

But thats better. Its ultimately my fault for having kids I guess.

@MadameBlobby

Cases are not doubling at the rate that Doom and Gloom suggested anyway.
Whitty and Valance said that cases would double based on the restrictions in force at the time. Since then various areas have had additional restrictions imposed on them so obviously that will have had some impact and increased the time it would take to double cases.

It does make me laugh people glibly saying close more of the economy down to keep schools open. You do realise school leavers need jobs to go to and a functioning economy. As it is if this magics away tomorrow the economy is in trouble for 5+ years and that’s without Brexit.

I do wish people would think a little bit deeper about what is feasible.

@MaxNormal

They can shut gyms, pubs and restaurants to try and keep schools open. I've managed to go without since Feb.

Thats nice for you. Furlough is ending, I wonder how they will all feel about going without an income.

Yep. That's DS1 out of a job, so no means to pay his rent, so he'll become homeless.

@StatisticalSense what about parents like me who cannot work from home? Am I supposed to leave my 7 year old home alone? Or quit my job and not be able to feed him?

[quote Notfeelinggreattoday]@Disconnect in some contact sports there are very clear guidance
My ds do rugby and there are many rules
My ds school here aren't really doing much sport just football
My eldest is at college doing a sports course and again little sport being done and this year was all about coaching and should be a lot of interaction but all not happening and his rugby at college has not resumed and no plans as yet .
Ds also plays football and again there are certain guidance although not as strict as rugby i would say [/quote]
OK, but I was talking about government guidelines for schools (including school PE), not sports club or sports ruling association's guidelines, which have been much better than the government's for schools.
In my town 2 schools have masks in communal areas and corridors and the others don't. That's the kind of thing I mean.

Waxon yes! Children and parents of children are to suffer so that others can go about their business as normal!

My DD college is doing one week in one week home learning. The class is split into two, one half in college, the other half watching the lesson online and interacting via messaging. So far it's working well.

Everyone, yet again is missing the point. It’s not (or shouldn’t be) about closing more down. Less than 20% of those who test positive are isolating. That’s ridiculous. We can start testing double the amount we are now but if people aren’t isolating what are we achieving.

The Government need to go back to basics, get on top of this from a public health point of view and set up a system that works and where people are incentivised to isolate.

Unfortunately now the numbers are so out of control they haven’t a hope in hell of contact tracing even with a decent system so I guess at some point before Christmas they will be forced into some sort of major restrictions on order to reduce the numbers to a manageable level.

There aren’t easy answers but everything will have to give at some point. Everything is interlinked. We cannot ring fence education for example if there will be mass unemployment as a result for school leavers or it forces a significant proportion of families in the U.K. into poverty just to keep the children at school full time by forcing unemployment onto parents.

Everything is a trade off and delicate balance but looking at how the system is failing through lack of isolating etc should be a starting point.

@Timeforanotherusername I'm waiting for the "school isn't childcare" comments that I've been getting since March, which doesn't solve my problem.

‘ Eyewhisker
Schools and universities need to stay open at all costs. End of. We cannot sacrifice our children’s futures like this.

This is possibly some of the most uneducated drivel I have seen in a while on here‘

👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼Absolutely agree. Blind demand that schools open come what may is ill educated. Maybe that’s why they are so insistent🤔

It’s this attitude that have landed schools in the mess they are in.

It’s this attitude that pushed them to open unsafely and allows Boris off the hook.

It’s this attitude that is allowing the government not to publish the affected schools.

It is this attitude that is making schools secretive about cases

It’s is this attitude that is bullying and scaring vulnerable and shielding parents and children.

It is this attitude that is enabling the government to pretend it’s safe and that kids don’t spread it.

We need to look at opening them safely rather than pretending the issue doesn’t exist.

The only thing that can be done to make a difference is to introduce mask wearing at schools.

Nothing can make his virus disappear, it’s going to be here for a very, very long time - and if masks are so important when it comes to reducing transmission, as we are always being told is the case, then they should be used in schools (unless exempt).

I don’t know what everyone else thinks can be done?

Schools can’t close and the economy can’t shut down. There isn’t an answer that’s going to fix this.

Schools can’t socially distance and there are hundreds of children mingling with each other every day so of course the virus will spread. It’s hardly rocket science is it?

Unless transmission is halted between the children then nothing will change - and masks are the only things that can reduce that transmission.

It’s mind boggling that masks aren’t mandatory in schools. PHE has now last week recognised formally the virus is airborne, which feeds into H&S Legislation. Schools are work places as well as so it should mean that more sensible measures are introduced including masks given there’s a criminal liability for H&S breaches.

There’s a chart on this page OP, I couldn’t find the pie chart one.

I think the journalists haven't understood the data. The point is that the fact there are lots of cases in schools doesn't tell us it is spreading in schools. All children go to school and lots of children are being tested now. So if any child gets covid that counts as a case in a school.

More convincing evidence would be if there are lots of large outbreaks in schools. That is are half the year getting infected at the same time?

It’s mind boggling that masks aren’t mandatory in schools.

It's just a hard balance. Children themselves don't get very ill from covid. It's also not clear they can interact well with teachers and their friends while wearing a mask and it might be really upsetting for them. So the question is, do we want children to suffer more to potentially help the rest of us.

This depends on how much it would help the rest of us and that's also not really clear.

The reason that Covid isn’t showing up in school figures is that most get v mild symptoms (Zoe App shows symptoms in kids are in fact fatigue and headache not the PHE listed symptoms). I’d imagine many cases are going unreported.

Google schools in Liverpool and Redbridge who did random testing. They uncovered 70-100 cases each in asymptomatic cases in pupils.

If you don’t look you won’t find and that’s why cases not showing up.

I don’t think it means 50%. Isn’t the percentage of workers with primary age kids 18% of workforce? Not totally sure.

As others have noted, lots of people including me would not want their 11 or 12 year old at home every day all day alone.

Wearing a mask is not upsetting for the majority of children. Other countries seem to manage well.

@Oaktree55

If there are lots of asymptomatic children, how infectious are they for adults? This is also unknown as far as I know. It doesn't seem to be the case that teachers are getting infected in huge numbers so maybe not much.

Wearing a mask is not upsetting for the majority of children. Other countries seem to manage well.

Are either of those two statements researched facts?

My understanding was that some European countries were considering removing the need for school children to wear masks now because of its downsides.

Schools should be the priority, BUT the government need to subsidise the businesses they would be demanding to close, such as pubs etc. From a personal point of view I would be happy with that, but my income doesn't depend on the sectors that will be most affected; they absolutely need to be supported (happily pay more tax to ensure that).