We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

@Eyewhisker

Schools and universities need to stay open at all costs. End of. We cannot sacrifice our children’s futures like this.

This is possibly some of the most uneducated drivel I have seen in a while on here.

Closing (or bringing in blended learning) schools will do nothing of the sort. It will mean that we can provide a more continuous education rather than the current stop/start that is happening all across the NW and my region of Manchester right now.

We have a detailed plan for what would be 'Tier 2' including solid teaching for 2 weeks, followed by 2 weeks of consolidation and support online. We have plans in place to accommodate students with difficult home lives to give them full time, distanced whilst in school learning, and support from staff.

All costs ultimately meaning risking the health of staff, students and their families. I had a difficult conversation on Friday with a student and mother as their dad died from COVID, and a sibling was in intensive care. Have you any idea of the impact that has had on them? Why the fuck would you be against measures that can reduce the risk of that happening to others?

Statistical Sense if my children are thrown under a bus yet again then quite simply I will stop spending my money.

I will do it through choice, many will have no choice.

I think even extremists may find your view extreme.

@StatisticalSense

There is no safe way for schools to remain open that isn't more damaging than simply closing them to all and using the teachers to provide a proper home based education and those continuing to press for part time education are purposely refusing to accept that this would be a worse outcome than simply closing schools. The other problem is the fallacy that we can close other environments to keep schools open when the only environment that is having anything like the same impact on the spread of the virus is care homes and they are more essential than schools. The reality is that schools need to close in order to protect jobs and the economy and if this means a small number of parents choose to resign from their jobs this is an overall better outcome than millions of workers in sectors of the economy forced to close losing their jobs.

I am desperately concerned about the current situation and I think we seriously need to reconsider the current situation with spread in schools. I'm happy to go with the science on the best way to manage the current situation and we as a family would fit around that.

I'm really worried about the arrangement we have with tween and teenage children crammed into small classrooms.

I don’t think it means 50%. Isn’t the percentage of workers with primary age kids 18% of workforce? Not totally sure.

Not that it should ever have to come to that

@notevenat20
Far from that.
Not only do secondary aged children not need a parent at home all day meaning the issue would only really affect those with younger children but many families already have a stay at home parent and others work around their partners job meaning they are rarely at work at the same time. If employers were encouraged to allow parents to work early mornings, evenings and weekends where the work allows and work from home where possible it should be possible for the vast majority of parents to remain in work. From a societal perspective it also makes sense to have some parents at home looking after their children if this allows a greater number of non-parents (who would otherwise be made redundant) to remain in work as the net level of employment would be greater in the situation where schools are closed but businesses are open.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?
Well, we can go to shops, work, school, uni, pubs, restaurants, libraries, cafes, gyms, parks, hotels, theme parks, zoos, slimming world and much more so there is plenty of stuff that we could give up.
However, I think the Govt should try enforcing the rules and/or making them more strict first. Dish out more fines. Concentrate on pub landlords not ensuring social-distancing and remove their licences permanently if they don't adhere to the measures. For any rule breakers at uni, expel them and only allow students to re-apply for uni places after, say, 2 years

We should try doing what they do on the Isle of Man and imprison people who go out socialising with positive tests or with Covid symptoms.

I think students and teaching staff in schools and unis should all wear masks anywhere in educational buildings. I also think everyone should wear them in the workplace. Everyone should be wearing them virtually everywhere.

Trouble is, what can we do about people breaking the rules in their own homes? That is, anecdotally, where much transmission takes place. It's a difficult one.

‘ Schools and universities need to stay open at all costs. End of. We cannot sacrifice our children’s futures like this.’

Some of the richest people on this planet came from a background of no education.
I think it’s more important for the welfare of the majority at this stage to allow family contact.

Some secondary school children are only 11. Is it really OK for them to be left at home all day every day while their parents work?

@Onadifferentuniverse

‘ Schools and universities need to stay open at all costs. End of. We cannot sacrifice our children’s futures like this.’

Some of the richest people on this planet came from a background of no education.
I think it’s more important for the welfare of the majority at this stage to allow family contact.

The richest people on the planet .....the greedy billionaires who are destroying the planet? The richest people are anomalies, we need education for the masses so that people can be taught to think for themselves

@notevenat20

Why people are listening to shagger Ferguson any more is beyond me. He couldn’t even give up getting his leg over. Cases are not doubling at the rate that Doom and Gloom suggested anyway. Further restrictions are pointless.

I too have sex on occasion so I am not sure that discounts his opinion.

Hospitalisations in the NW are doubling at an alarming rate which surely means that soon deaths will be doing the same thing. You might think this means further restrictions are pointless but then what is the alternative?

Well what does discount his opinion is he evidently felt the measures that he considered necessary to control the spread of the virus weren’t important enough for him to follow. If impacts his credibility IMO. Before we even get into how wrong all his other previous predictions have been.

@Heffalooomia to the point where sitting in a classroom with 29 others becomes more important than being allowed to see family members you don’t live with?

I don’t think so, I think the mental health issues that would arise with this would be more damaging than sitting at home, being allowed to see family and learning via zoom.

@Timeforanotherusername
Opting for the second best option, in terms of outcomes, for education in order to keep other parts of live somewhat normal is not throwing children under the bus. The aim has to be in keeping live palatable for everyone no matter their age and spending the entirety (and more) of the countries risk budget on keeping schools open fails to achieve this. What does throw people under the bus is the thought process that many jobs are disposable and that people suddenly flip a switch on their 18th birthday that means they can suddenly go without human contact for weeks on end.

*movingonup20
If schools are where it's spreading, giving up stuff won't make a difference. Those of us whose kids are adults are already giving up far more, my kids futures are already on the line because their degree programmes have been wrecked, can't do research, can't do practicals - why should they give up seeing their parent (me) too
And herein lies the problem.

It's seen throughout the boards and is obvious in the way so many are behaving.

As long as i'm alright Jack to hell with everyone else!*

But why is that “I’m alright Jack?”

If 50% of cases are occurring in schools but only 5% in pubs how does closing pubs reduce cases meaningfully?

I think if parents had confidence that part time school would be any good it would be different. But it will be shit. Not due to the teachers who as always do an absolute power of work and go above and beyond but because the “blended” bit will be non existent.

Statistical somwe lock away children?

So that over 18's can go to the pub?

Or do we all actually start doing what we need to do and think of everyone?

I am doing what I can to prevent the spread of this virus.

Why are others not?

I don't actually want pubs to shut. I just want many of the people who visit them to stop being so bloody selfish.

*I am doing what I can to prevent the spread of this virus.

Why are others not?*

Because they don’t care and sadly you can’t make them.

If 50% of cases are occurring in schools but only 5% in pubs how does closing pubs reduce cases meaningfully?

The question is where people are being infected. I don't know if we have stats for that.

@notevenat20

If 50% of cases are occurring in schools but only 5% in pubs how does closing pubs reduce cases meaningfully?

The question is where people are being infected. I don't know if we have stats for that.

I thought stats were produced showing that?

I actually thought we should have gone part time for schools. But we were lucky and were getting a good offering. Some schools couldn’t offer anything like 50%

I thought stats were produced showing that?

I would be interested to see them.

I think it was a pie chart thing produced by ONS, I’m sure you’d find it if you looked.

@Timeforanotherusername
It's not about locking children away, it's about closing environments that cannot be made Covid secure without impacting on their output by more than going fully virtual would. If the country was serious about reducing transmission in schools the first thing that would be done would be a ban on gatherings of school aged children in other settings (eg: Scouts, sports clubs, choirs etc) in order to reduce the level of the virus getting into schools rather than placing yet more restrictions on businesses largely patronised by adults without young children.

But the people wanting to temp
Home school want the school and teachers to provide the work still
How can they do that and be and school teaching ?
People that homeschool normally don't have support from school and go it alone with resources etc outside of a school
Many people want to home school as they call it but with teachers providing work and marking for them

There’s a chart on this page OP, I couldn’t find the pie chart one.

www.watfordobserver.co.uk/news/18769542.coronavirus-outbreaks-england-spreading-mostly-schools/

@AldiAisleofCrap how do you propose my year 11 son then sits gcse in summer if they shut secondaries , hes missed 4 months plus if teaching already , not even covered all that will be in exams