We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

Not all schools have the same problems. Maybe it would help if England had once policy like Scotland, rather than different policies in different schools. A minimum should be masks in corridors and communal places. Also need policies re. contact sports. Trouble is lack of clear policy and huge differences between schools so some are safer than others.

Sorry that post was very secondary-specific as my DC left primary years ago, not that I don't think they are important, just I can only speak for own experience.

I've given up enough, thanks.

Why people are listening to shagger Ferguson any more is beyond me. He couldn’t even give up getting his leg over. Cases are not doubling at the rate that Doom and Gloom suggested anyway. Further restrictions are pointless.

Educational settings (mainly primary and secondary) were responsible for nearly 50% of outbreaks/transmissions last week, above carehomes. Restaurants and hospitality were responsible for hardly any. To keep schools open and bring cases down we would have to give up everything else and crash the economy again. It’s stupid. We need a balance of part time school (2 weeks on, 2 weeks off which gives a natural circuit break) and working parents supported with distanced, safe childcare with technology available if the children can’t stay home for those weeks. Vulnerable children or those that don’t complete the work set are required to attend the childcare setting as well. There are ways to do it sensibly that protect the economy and children’s education. Schools back as normal is not sustainable.

I think there's a limit on how much people will give up to keep schools open. As it is thousands aren't actually in school, they are isolating and some schools have had to close to some children because the teachers are isolating.

The government totally screwed up schools opening but they don't really care about teachers or children in state schools.

I don’t know about students who can’t access it, that is a government question.

I did live teaching whilst looking after key workers. All my colleagues were setting work too. I don’t think anyone said that. They may have said they couldn’t do live learning because they didn’t know how. I taught myself.

I'm not socialising apart from walks with a friend where I take a flask of coffee. As far as I'm concerned, they can shut everything apart from schools. DD is an only child and she needs social contact. Her interests got so narrow during lockdown, as much as I can try I'm not a child and she needs peers the same age as her to laugh, love and learn with. I've had my childhood but I do not want her to be robbed of hers x

Why people are listening to shagger Ferguson any more is beyond me. He couldn’t even give up getting his leg over. Cases are not doubling at the rate that Doom and Gloom suggested anyway. Further restrictions are pointless.

I too have sex on occasion so I am not sure that discounts his opinion.

Hospitalisations in the NW are doubling at an alarming rate which surely means that soon deaths will be doing the same thing. You might think this means further restrictions are pointless but then what is the alternative?

In the summer most parents were saying prioritise schools over everything else so if these people have changed their mind because then why?

Are pubs a major place for infection or is it a certain type of pub in certain locations that are breaking the rules? I have been to a pub since they reopened and it was well managed like many restaurants are these days with table service, Perspex dividers...

The scientists at the daily briefings have always said that household transmission is the biggest place to pick up the virus so surely socialising in homes is the biggest problem and they need to suspend indoor socialising before half term when lots of play dates will occur?

Educational settings (mainly primary and secondary) were responsible for nearly 50% of outbreaks/transmissions last week, above carehomes

You have to be a little careful about that stat. All children go to school so any child that tests positive is a case in a school. But yes it is a high percentage.

If schools are where it's spreading, giving up stuff won't make a difference. Those of us whose kids are adults are already giving up far more, my kids futures are already on the line because their degree programmes have been wrecked, can't do research, can't do practicals - why should they give up seeing their parent (me) too

If the lockdown taught me anything it's that I am not a teacher.

If people have the ability and knowledge to home school, then go for it.

But closing schools widens the gap for disadvantaged students, it's more than education. It's socialising and free school meals for those who need it.

Schools can't be allowed to close again, children are already paying the price and older students with GCSEs and ALevels have been utterly destroyed by closures.

If schools are where it's spreading, giving up stuff won't make a difference.

I think no one knows if it's where it is spreading. Children are being tested a lot and a lot are coming up positive. But we don't know where they are catching it.

@noblegiraffe

Why close other stuff in preference to fixing the problems in schools?

This! Thank you @noblegiraffe. I would love schools to remain open, but in a safe way - the present situation cannot be sustained.

@notevenat20

I just think masks should be worn in schools (year 3 and up) before they start restricting those of us in low incident areas any more. Only 3 cases last week in my whole county!

Household transmission is the biggest place to pick up the virus
I agree, problem is this is also one of the most difficult things to police and the most likely to cause resentment because it's such an intrusion into people's personal and family life, people instinctly rail against it.
It's easy for me because I'm quite reclusive and happy not to socialise, for others it feels like in afffront to basic Human nature to be told you can't have contact with your family and friends

Snowchin depends how you fix it. What would you do?

@movingonup20

If schools are where it's spreading, giving up stuff won't make a difference. Those of us whose kids are adults are already giving up far more, my kids futures are already on the line because their degree programmes have been wrecked, can't do research, can't do practicals - why should they give up seeing their parent (me) too

And herein lies the problem.

It's seen throughout the boards and is obvious in the way so many are behaving.

As long as i'm alright Jack to hell with everyone else!

I just think masks should be worn in schools (year 3 and up) before they start restricting those of us in low incident areas any more. Only 3 cases last week in my whole county!

Sadly I think something like that might be needed.

There is no safe way for schools to remain open that isn't more damaging than simply closing them to all and using the teachers to provide a proper home based education and those continuing to press for part time education are purposely refusing to accept that this would be a worse outcome than simply closing schools. The other problem is the fallacy that we can close other environments to keep schools open when the only environment that is having anything like the same impact on the spread of the virus is care homes and they are more essential than schools. The reality is that schools need to close in order to protect jobs and the economy and if this means a small number of parents choose to resign from their jobs this is an overall better outcome than millions of workers in sectors of the economy forced to close losing their jobs.

There is no safe way for schools to remain open that isn't more damaging than simply closing them to all and using the teachers to provide a proper home based education and those continuing to press for part time education are purposely refusing to accept that this would be a worse outcome than simply closing schools.

If you close the schools don't 50% of parents lose their job?

@EmpressJKRowlingSpartacus My statement was not supposed to be comforting. I’m more at risk of suicide now due to OCD and PTSD than I ever have been in my life but my MH somehow isn’t important, and nor is the mental health of every person alive. The facts are people are dying from suicide due to lockdown at a faster rate than people are currently dying of Covid. It damn well should make your blood run cold. I don’t understand why theres not more anger over this, I don’t understand why it’s ok for people to become seriously mentally unwell and be refused any kind of help because we must instead protect the NHS. The NHS has gone to shit, I don’t care about protecting it anymore. I would rather like to live and they’re denying any access to treatment. The longer I and others go without treatment the higher the chance we die.

We are in an area of high cases and at the moment apart from DS going to school and me to work (2 days a week but high risk as one day at a university and one day healthcare) we’re not doing much at all. Keeping our contacts down to prioritise school. Hoping other parents in DS bubble are doing likewise!
We will meet DS best non school friend at a park outside sometime when it’s dry.

@MarshaBradyo
I am certainly not qualified to come up with an answer to this, but I believe that the best answer would be to have mask wearing if possible in secondary schools, smaller class sizes (obviously this may mean PT school but better than the on/off situation we have presently) and if the rates are too high in an area then a temporary move to online schooling.
Also tbh I believe that children who are vulnerable or are living with vulnerable people should have homeschooling as an option. Why has this been removed when the infection rates have gone up so rapidly?