We may have to give up more to keep them open

[notevenat20]

From the BBC quoting Ferguson this morning

"We think that infections are probably increasing, doubling every two weeks or so, in some areas faster than that, maybe every seven days," he said.

The former government adviser said the "most important" measure to drive down infections was reducing contact between households.

He said schools should be kept open, but "we may have to give up more to keep them open"."

Can we give up any more?

How do people feel about making masks compulsory? I personally am not happy about the idea but accept it might be necessary. The big downsides as I see them are

Discipline. How is a teacher going to know who is humming, muttering etc?
Human relationships. Is it ok psychologically for our children not to see the faces of their friends and teacher?
Deaf students. How can anyone lip read?
English as a second language children. How can they function if they can't see anyone's lips and how can the teacher understand them?

Schools staying open should be ultimate priority, they are the least affected by the virus but have walked away worse off.

If homeschooling returns then I’d like to think we would get more support with our SEN child. Who despite the school claiming funding for him, rang us twice in 5 months!

@DBML no one ‘deserves’ a boob job and a holiday in the Maldives . I assume you’re on the wind up as that would be a bizarre level of entitlement, particularly combined with your total lack of understanding of how private pensions work.

You can get transparent masks so you can see the person's lips. They've been discussed on other threads.

As far as human psychology goes - they can take masks off when outside, so they'll see other faces then. Perhaps not seeing faces might help them concentrate in class when they're supposed to be focused on work.

Also, what is it doing to human psychology to send the message to our kids that we're ok for people to die just so we can see half a face when indoors? Seems a bit damaging to me to be honest.

Whatever action the government take will affect some people more than others. Putting aside my opinions on the right thing to do, ultimately they will take whatever action they decide. Should they choose to close, for example, hospitality, leisure and non essential retail and ban all households from mixing then that is what they’ll do. If this proves insufficient they may decide to close all schools and there would be nothing any of us could do to stop that. Stopping the NHS from being overwhelmed and stopping countless deaths will prevail over the above considerations.

@CarrotInATree

Of course I deserve those things if I’ve worked and saved for them.

I’m as human as the next 10 year old and I feel I have as much right to a life as anyone else. No wind up.

I’m not saying schools should close so I can do what I want.
I’m saying, I am not willing to give up anymore to accommodate other people’s children. That was the question. What would you give up. I say nothing else.

@notevenat20

I’m just trying to get people to think beyond the middle class privilege which dominates here. Yes some kids may be “happier” at school but in the scheme of choices we have coming up between unemployment etc some children being “happier” at school needs rethinking in so many ways when there is so much more at stake. Kids are very adaptable, adults more set in their ways.

That is very much a speech from the middle classes. Working class people often can't work from home and we also get fired very quickly, that is if we are not working on zero hours contracts to start with. We need our children to go to school full time.

Completely agree. The middle class privilege on this thread is embarrassing.

Schools are not the least affected. Educational establishments have the most cases. Read something in the Manchester Evening News last night, that the majority of parents there want to home educate as it’s rife in Manchester schools.

It was a mistake to open schools in the way they've been opened. teachers were saying so but the "back at all costs" types had their fingers in their ears.

So schools will be closing again soon as there are not enough teachers to keep them open because they are isolating, have Covid, gone off with stress or have resigned because of he lack of care and respect from just about everyone.

It should have been blended learning to keep classrooms Covid safe. Only 15 to a class and masks should have been compulsory from the start. Teachers are having to work in very unsafe conditions when it was totally avoidable.

Primary shouldn’t reduce hours

Listen to Professor Semple on R4 this morning for reassurance - talking about primary children not amplifying cases

If it's all about the schools though, why are the rates so different across the country?

We're in SW London and so fairly dense population. Yet the rate here is 34 cases per 100,000. Compare that with Manchester or Leeds where it's 527 and 297 respectively.

It seems to me that it can't be about schools

(That's not to say I wouldn't be worried about my children going back to school, and their teachers, if I had school-aged children any more!)

@BIWI this is what I don't get. Zero cases at my DS's school or any of the other local schools, we're a town of nearly 40,000 so not sparsely populated.

On the news last night it was saying that this is a northern outbreak. Figures are low elsewhere including London.

But Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle,Sheffield are high, some very high. It’s spreading in the schools in these places. I live in a ‘leafy suburb’ compliant area, lots of mask wearing.

4 secondaries with popped bubbles, and 5 primaries. All within about 3 miles

TheEmoji what i want to know is

1/ how many schools have closed bubbles because of 1 infected person
2/ how many outbreaks are 2 people? And how many are siblings?
3/ how many outbreaks are greater than 5, > 10 etc
4/ what percentage of the current positivencases have caught the infection in school.
5/ how many people have caught infection in school and taken virus home and infected.hpusehold.

There are more schools than care homes. There are more schools than universities. They are always going to be up at the top. But really it doesn't actually tell us a lot.

@TheEmojiFormerlyKnownAsPrince

On the news last night it was saying that this is a northern outbreak. Figures are low elsewhere including London.

But Manchester, Leeds, Liverpool, Newcastle,Sheffield are high, some very high. It’s spreading in the schools in these places. I live in a ‘leafy suburb’ compliant area, lots of mask wearing.

4 secondaries with popped bubbles, and 5 primaries. All within about 3 miles

Ergo, it's not initiating from schools. It can't be if it's not happening elsewhere in the country where children have gone back to school.

I clicked on the link up thread about numbers in schools and IIR there are only 3 cases in our borough.

I think we still have a lot to give up, at least some of us, before closing schools. Just look at some threads, people are posting about parties, holidays, camping trips, some people don’t follow self-isolating rules, some don’t give all their contacts to track and trace. And the track and trace itself doesn’t work properly... Also all these people who are gathering outside pubs after 10 pm and secondary school children who are wondering around in big groups at lunchtime.

But if children have gone back in places with very low numbers of cases in the community it’s not going to affect schools.

If they’ve gone back with high number of cases in the community it’s going to facilitate them spreading it in schools

Schools should have only opened where community cases were low.

If there aren't any cases in the community then of course there won't be any cases in the school.

If there are lots of cases in the community then of course when it gets into schools there will be spread because of the complete lack of mitigation measures.

There might only be 3 cases in your borough, but look at the North compared to London. There’s not 3 cases in Liverpool, Newcastle or Manchester.

Its spreading because of schools. There is no denying it.

Im in a local lockdown and have been for weeks. There is no household mixing.

Its still spreading like wildfire here. Cases are going through the roof. Schools can't stay open as the staff are dropping like flies.

Huge sense of middle class entitlement on this thread. Yes we need to prioritise learning but that doesnt mean schooling the old way.

If the government put half as much time and effort into blended learning and other options as they do into keeping other industries afloat then we wouldnt be in this mess.

@Willyoujustbequiet the middle class entitlement is from people demanding schools close because they can WFH.

Many people like me who cannot work from home will be screwed if blended learning is implemented. How am I supposed to work? Leave my 7 year old alone all day?

And l do think there’s an element of ‘I’m all right Jack’ on this thread as ‘l live in an area of low infection’ so there’s no problem.

Try living in an area where practically every school is affected, and your attitude might change a bit. It’s like a North/South divide again

• They can shut gyms, pubs and restaurants to try and keep schools open. I've managed to go without since Feb. I just want the dc's educations to scrape through to next summer.*

The thing is we actually need a balance of things.

I don't have children, and though I obviously understand the importance of education I don't really see why I should give up my entire life for it.
My business is scraping by as it is, if it's shut again everything I've worked for for the past 10 years will be gone. I already live in a local lockdown area so I can't see any friends, family or enjoy any social life.

Education is important, that's why we've all made sacrifices for it but I'm not ok with losing everything I have just so we keep the schools open.

Why can't we blended learning? Or come up with a solution that doesn't involve tanking everything else.

The rates are different across the country because it's effecting university towns.

They should never have brought the students back in one go like they did.