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Daily numbers, graphs, analysis thread 22

999 replies

BigChocFrenzy · 05/10/2020 12:00

Welcome to thread 22 of the daily updates

Resource links:

Uk dashboard deaths, cases, hospitals, tests - 4 nations, English regions & LAs
R estimates UK & English regions
Imperial UK weekly LAs, cases / 100k, table, map, hotspots
School statistics Attendance
Modelling real number of UK infections February to date
NHS England Hospital activity
NHs England Daily deaths
MSAO Map of English cases
Cases Tracker England Local Government
ONS MSAO Map English deaths
CovidMessenger live update by council district in England
Scot gov Daily data
Scotland TravellingTabby LAs, care homes, hospitals, tests, t&t
PH Wales LAs, tests, ONS deaths
NI Dashboard
Zoe Uk data
UK govt pressers Slides & data
ICNRC Intensive Care National Audit & Research reports
NHS t&t England & UK testing Weekly stats
PHE Surveillance reports & LA Local Watchlist Maps by LSOA
ONS England infection surveillance report each Friday
Datasets for ONS surveillance reports
ONS Roundup deaths, infections & economic reports
ECDC rolling 14-day incidence EEA & UK
Worldometer UK page
Our World in Data GB test positivity etc, DIY country graphs
FT DIY graphs compare deaths, cases, raw / million pop
Alama Personal COVID risk assessment
Local Mobility Reports for countries
UK Highstreet Tracker for cities & large towns Footfall, spend index, workers, visitors, economic recovery

Our STUDIES Corner

We welcome factual, data driven and analytical contributions
Please try to keep discussion focused on these
📈 📉 📊 👍

OP posts:
Thread gallery
55
Piggywaspushed · 08/10/2020 22:33

Hmmm ceevee : 10-19 accounts for the biggest group in my town by far . No university students.

Sunshinegirl82 · 08/10/2020 22:35

I'm not supporting the let it rip through herd immunity approach but I also don't see that a 1-2 year period of immunity means that a level of herd immunity isn't possible.

Obviously not everyone will be infected simultaneously and immunity won't wear off simultaneously so even with fairly short lived individual immunity I would hope that there would be enough people with immunity at any one time to keep the amount of virus circulating in the community pretty low. Not low enough for the virus to be eradicated but low enough not to need additional measures to keep it at an acceptable endemic level.

ceeveebee · 08/10/2020 22:39

@Piggywaspushed

Hmmm ceevee : 10-19 accounts for the biggest group in my town by far . No university students.
Is there a breakdown somewhere by town and age group? Would you be able to link it as I’d be interested to see that too? Thanks
Piggywaspushed · 08/10/2020 22:40

Article here about the concerns of Sage that the anti lockdown fringe are being given too much attention and credence:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/08/planned-new-covid-rules-for-north-of-england-are-not-enough-say-scientists

Piggywaspushed · 08/10/2020 22:41

Ceevee I follow my council on Facebook and they publish figures weekly.

SheepandCow · 08/10/2020 22:42

[quote Piggywaspushed]Article here about the concerns of Sage that the anti lockdown fringe are being given too much attention and credence:

www.theguardian.com/politics/2020/oct/08/planned-new-covid-rules-for-north-of-england-are-not-enough-say-scientists[/quote]
Isn't that because they've supported by the right wing billionaire media barons?

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 22:59

@Sunshinegirl82

I'm not supporting the let it rip through herd immunity approach but I also don't see that a 1-2 year period of immunity means that a level of herd immunity isn't possible.

Obviously not everyone will be infected simultaneously and immunity won't wear off simultaneously so even with fairly short lived individual immunity I would hope that there would be enough people with immunity at any one time to keep the amount of virus circulating in the community pretty low. Not low enough for the virus to be eradicated but low enough not to need additional measures to keep it at an acceptable endemic level.

... How else are you suggesting to get herd immunity, other than via a vaccine or "let it rip" ?

The idea of the current SD is to keep cases & deaths within limits, but - in a densely populated country like the UK,
it would likely take several years to reach herd immunity like this, staying within manageable limits

Have you read earlier posts on these threads quoting experts that herd immunity without a vaccine results in "overshoot"
i.e. 20-25% more infections to get herd immunity compared to getting it via vaccination

The 1st wave of Covid had 65,000 more deaths in that 3 month period compared to the historical average; the ONS says > 57,000 are deaths with / from Covid

Nearly all public health experts think the UK is far away from herd immunity - studies of some hard hit areas around the world have found up to 70% antibodies

There are likely to be several vaccines available next year, so this question is really academic unless something goes badly wrong with them all
A vaccination program would provide herd immunity within the time frame you want

OP posts:
Augustbreeze · 08/10/2020 23:01

Whitty and Vallance's charts were broken down by much smaller age intervals, remember? But that info isn't being published weekly, it seems.

Frazzled6 · 08/10/2020 23:08

@piggywaspushed.... I live nr the same town you reside in and the increase in numbers this week is actually nr the Uni campus.... Its not a big uni but the rise in numbers can be attributed to the university.

However the other council with most of the large schools has not seen an increase... So I don't think it's the schools...

Sunshinegirl82 · 08/10/2020 23:10

@BigChocFrenzy

You have misinterpreted my post.

What I mean is that the idea that if a vaccine is a long way off we will have to "rinse and repeat" with a full on epidemic every few years doesn't seem likely to me, even if immunity is reasonably short lived. There would be a reasonable amount of immunity in the community most of the time because people are not infected simultaneously and don't lose immunity simultaneously.

The situation is the same if a vaccine only provides relatively short lived immunity.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 23:12

France

dashboard.covid19.data.gouv.fr/vue-d-ensemble?location=FRA

18,129 cases
76 deaths
711 Hospitalised, for a total of 7,624
114 ICU for a total of 1,427

In Paris, Covid patients are now nearly 50% of those in ICU
Accordingly, staff leave there has been cancelled and non-essential ops postponed.

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 08/10/2020 23:19

We need a new thread.

When you look at ICU beds - once ICUs fill up you stop being able to do routine surgery because your theatres may need to be quickly adapted to ICUs again, as some were in the first wave. Then your wards fill up with less serious covid cases and you stop having room for the severe asthma attacks, the pneumonias and so on. Then you have to push out anyone fit enough to go somewhere else, that will mean sending some people to nursing homes again because you cant leave them on the street and they have no other home.

Keepdistance · 08/10/2020 23:25

I notice apparently spain is dropping back down but france going up.
France where only infected pupil goes home only secondary and all teachers in masks vs spain where they are all in masks including primary age.masks
If say spain was triggered by holiday makers then i can see it's possible to get it back under control

Quarantino · 08/10/2020 23:25

Does anyone else find it really hard to keep up with these threads? Once they move past a certain point I can't find where I was on my phone so like to read properly on a laptop. I do like to read or skim every post but I find myself getting anxious when I get behind and new threads are started!

One thing I'll love most about the post-pandemic world (oh please let it come soon) is not feeling like I need to be 'on top' of all this info/data, or aware of the figures.

( please could people in the new thread just 'watch' it rather than post placemarking posts?)

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 23:25

[quote Sunshinegirl82]@BigChocFrenzy

You have misinterpreted my post.

What I mean is that the idea that if a vaccine is a long way off we will have to "rinse and repeat" with a full on epidemic every few years doesn't seem likely to me, even if immunity is reasonably short lived. There would be a reasonable amount of immunity in the community most of the time because people are not infected simultaneously and don't lose immunity simultaneously.

The situation is the same if a vaccine only provides relatively short lived immunity. [/quote]
....
By rinse and repeat I don't mean exactly the same each year, just that it would likely take years, not just 1-2:

There would be year 1 with up to 90% able to be infected, but most would not be
then each year a reduced number, as some gain immunity and some lose it - immunity for only 1-2 years means the process takes longer than for viruses where immunity is ~lifelong

Babies being born would keep bringing in new people without immunity too

"Overshoot" would mean a 20-25% higher level required than by vaccination
From studies of hard hit areas, that could be 70% in densely populated countries

Adam Kucharski explains the longer process, with studies:

threadreaderapp.com/thread/1305436391707467776.html

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 23:28

➡️ NEW thread: 📉 📊

https://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4045808-Daily-numbers-graphs-analysis-thread-23?watched=1

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 23:31

The current assumption is that any Covid vaccine would need to be annual,
lthough possibly in the future scientists can figure out how to make immunity longer-lasting

OP posts:
alreadytaken · 08/10/2020 23:36

Arizona's covid numbers started to fall 2 weeks after mask wearing was mandated - one to quote to mask deniers. . www.deseret.com/u-s-world/2020/10/8/21505713/coronavirus-arizona-covid-19-cdc-study?utm_source=facebook&utm_medium=deseretnews&utm_campaign=facebookpage&fbclid=IwAR2QsS8wZN1Th5y1_8acjTNLo2wrxDKdFs3YL3kz64ferrBlH-nFGM-JaS8

Quarantino · 08/10/2020 23:50

If you follow BCF's link then try and watch the thread without posting it goes funny!
Try this link p'raps
www.mumsnet.com/Talk/coronavirus/4045808-Daily-numbers-graphs-analysis-thread-23

AlecTrevelyan006 · 08/10/2020 23:57

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Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

BigChocFrenzy · 08/10/2020 23:57

Can a few other people try the first link and let me know, please, for future reference

OP posts:
BigChocFrenzy · 09/10/2020 00:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn by MNHQ as it quotes a deleted post.

SheepandCow · 09/10/2020 00:03

Surely the figure is lower because countries took preventative measures (some better than others)?

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