If masks work. Most places are supposedly covid safe. Why are cases rising.

[LetsPlayAGame20]

Genuine question that's juts popped into my mind.

Surely if cases are rising and majority are following rules. Why are cases rapidly increasing

Purely anecdotal and I know doesn’t necessarily reflect the situation everywhere but.... I work in a school of nearly 1200 kids. We’ve been open 4 weeks and have 4 positive tests - one staff member and 3 children all across different year groups and no direct link. 3 of the 4 seem to have picked it up from their families, the 4th there doesn’t seem to be an obvious source.
3 of the 4 groups of contacts sent home for 14 days are back and no-one in those groups got ill.
So yes there are cases in our school but definitely not an outbreak and no evidence of in-school transmission. I’m actually quite pleasantly surprised at that a month in.

It's interesting that when it's students 'partying' then when they get cases after 1-2 weeks of them opening it's students fault.

When we get cases within 1-2 weeks of schools opening it's nothing to do with schools and school children.

At DD's university they now have their first cases. They've been there for less than a week and only first years are in classes. There's not been time for it to be their fault really, yet they'll get the blame.

@LetsPlayAGame20

I guessed it would be schools, touch wood ds school and any local here haven't had any cases and I'm a large city. However they're meant to be covid secure.

They haven't had any positive tested cases is all any of us know.

I'd assume my school of 1500ish has had a positive case, seems unlikely they haven't. Not all cases lead to clusters of course.

if masks work there's plenty of evidence that cloth masks don't do much.

if places are social distancing many aren't. All 4-18 year olds are in places unable to distance. Pubs and restaurants rarely allow distancing to really work. Gyms. Even supermarkets are functioning much more normally and SD not what it was. Plus private gatherings.

why are cases rising? see above

Also really students. I really don't think its parties as such. It's moving tens of thousands of young untested adults around the country to move into new households of 4-10 people with no SDing required when there.

It's an obvious risk and it's not the fault of these young beware encouraged to move in together and not SD from those in their house, despite not knowing them or what they've been doing for the previous 14 days, etc.

Of course cases would rise, even without parties happening.

The same young people who spent the first 3-4 months being told young people and kids don't get Covid, or if they do the don't get ill and their transmission is low. 🙄

@cardibach

Masks would also protect teachers from each other.

Because Covid safe is a farce to get people to feel better about going out into establishments. It’s only as good if people wear the right masks, adhere to good hygiene and spaces are allowed to air without lots of people congregating

I think many have assumed the rules will just work if followed.
That masks have a barrier quality (they do to moisture, but not always to viruses);
that 2 metres will invariably be beyond the distance particles can travel;
that "outside" = "you definitely can't catch it."
That "children don't spread it."
That 3 days will deal with it if it's on surfaces.
That hand sanitizer is an ideal combat measure.

It's a weird one. All this is in the right direction but we're getting more hung up on the rules than real life covid is.

Many, many people aren't following the rules. They wear their masks on their chins, or under their noses, or not at all, or they clutch them in their hands like a lucky rabbit's foot.

Many people - and I'd say most - are not following the 2 metre social distancing thing. Most people don't understand just how big two metres is.

I live in London and I dearly wish they'd redeploy traffic wardens as covid legislation enforcers. What we need is a bunch of people who are used to rule-breakers yelling at them, and who just carry on.

People who have kept to the rules very carefully are being put at risk by those who don't bother.

@Aragog

Also really students. I really don't think its parties as such. It's moving tens of thousands of young untested adults around the country to move into new households of 4-10 people with no SDing required when there.

It's an obvious risk and it's not the fault of these young beware encouraged to move in together and not SD from those in their house, despite not knowing them or what they've been doing for the previous 14 days, etc.

Of course cases would rise, even without parties happening.

The same young people who spent the first 3-4 months being told young people and kids don't get Covid, or if they do the don't get ill and their transmission is low. 🙄

My DS moved into university last week. His digs (a big block of student "households") has a no-guests rule: when we arrived he was told on registration that we wouldn't be allowed up to help with his luggage or to help him unpack, or even just to see where he will be living. When we got to his block, there's a massive "no guests" sign on the door. So, we stood in the drizzle while every single other parent went right in, ignoring the rules. Every single one.

I spoke with 4 patients this morning and 4 patients yesterday morning who were really really surprised that I suggested that they book a Covid test for their symptoms. So many people are in total denial. "Oh I know it's not Covid Dr, it's the same cough I get every year when the weather changes, I just need antibiotics" I'm hearing on loop at the moment. These people are out and about, shopping, working as usual. Then if you actually manage to persuade them to isolate and book a test the website says there are none available, they give up after a day or two and can't be bothered to isolate. What hope have we got?

I wonder this too. In Spain masks are worn indoors and out and the cases have risen massively there too,

Medicalmasksneed to be changed every 4 hours...how many are doing that?

Cloth masks don’t work - have never been shown to work. They just make people feel better.

Oh and we have had one positive case at our school - it’s didn’t spread - we are a large and dense school with tiny classrooms. It’s abundantly clear to me that healthy kids aren’t already spreading this. Cloth masks possibly make it worst because they become damp and soppy, you touch them then touch your door or bananas etc

It’s spreading indoors amongst adults. It can’t be stopped unless we pause life for another six months by which point your economy will be so fucked your won’t want to live anyway. It’s time for us all to grow up and be brave

People are ignoring rules and still mixing households, when went out to eat in my area groups of friends were inside together which is against our further restrictions even saw some hug and kiss as they greeted! Schools /uni/college are now a big cause of cases.

[quote alreadytaken]Transmission is happening in places where people dont wear masks - the home, schools, universities, care homes, hospital wards.

Not everyone wears a mask or wears it properly at work.

It takes time to stop an oil tanker - people infected now infect family so takes a few weeks to have a lot of impact.

This is not an official site but picks up reports from educational institutions via the press/ the establishments. www.boycottunsafeschools.co.uk/reported-covid-19-cases/school-cases-before-12-8-20/[/quote]
That website hasn't picked up the closures of year groups the four schools in my town.

I think students going back seem to have had an impact. Not sure though!

The website, useful as it is because the government certainly isn't publishing the details, is massively out of date. There are over 40 schools affected in my area (supposedly a low cases area!) and only 20 on that map. I think it's actually giving a false sense of security about the schools situation.

The schools website only picks up those it can verify from the press - so definitely an underestimate. There will be data elsewhere - attendance figures and ONS surveillance reporting on outbreaks. But what the website does show is that schools outbreaks are common.

[quote DumplingsAndStew]@cardibach

Masks would also protect teachers from each other.[/quote]
How often do teachers spend talking to each other? I barely get 2 minutes to talk to my colleagues, mostly we just wave as we see them at the end of a distant corridor.

Masks, hygiene and following social distancing rules help to a point. However, if someone in your workplace or class has it you are likely to catch it even if sat 2 metres apart as it is airborne. People in schools and workplaces don't tend to where a mask all day long, and even if they did I doubt it would stop them getting it if they are sharing a room with someone with it all day, everyday. Plus, test and trace isn't working quick enough and a lot of cases are asymptomatic anyway so can spread quickly through a workplace for example before someone even gets a symptom.

@Calledyoulastnightfromglasgow

Cloth masks don’t work - have never been shown to work. They just make people feel better.

Really? What's your basis for this?

No one official said that the wearing of masks makes a situation Covid secure?

I don't know why someone would think that, and this type of misunderstanding means people can't make sensible decisions as they have their facts mixed up!

All that has been said is that masks help reduce the spread.

In addition is it not clear that:
A.some people aren't wearing them for no good reason, and others wear them incorrectly, don't change them frequently, touch the face piece and place them on surfaces.

B. There are plenty of situations where people are in an enclosed place without masks: pubs, restaurants, workplaces and schools for example.

I cannot believe that people are still questioning the effectiveness of masks. Every credible university has published papers showing their efficiency at slowing down the spread of the virus, from a scientific perspective and also from the perspective of demographics science and epidemiology.