If masks work. Most places are supposedly covid safe. Why are cases rising.

[LetsPlayAGame20]

Genuine question that's juts popped into my mind.

Surely if cases are rising and majority are following rules. Why are cases rapidly increasing

One quarter of people told to isolate are not doing so. This is the biggest problem, hence the draconian fines and penalties very recently announced.
www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/home-news/coronavirus-uk-law-rules-self-isolation-fine-police-manhunts-capacity-crime-b715857.html?amp

The report monitors outbreaks as well as cases, in each type of institutions.

sometimes people going into hospital will test negative but be asymptomatic and spread the virus, the test are not 100% reliable. Doesnt happen often but you cant really put a mask on a sleeping patient.

I've also heard of one example where the outlet from the ICU was potentially contaminating people, ward were converted to ICUs very quickly and sometimes things get missed then.

Like this outbreak: news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-royal-glamorgan-hospital-reports-major-covid-19-outbreak-with-82-covid-19-cases-12085686

[quote QueenBlueberries]Like this outbreak: news.sky.com/story/coronavirus-royal-glamorgan-hospital-reports-major-covid-19-outbreak-with-82-covid-19-cases-12085686[/quote]
I pointed out above that 5% of cases are being caught in hospital, presumably that percentage is very much higher in Glamorgan.
It is unacceptable that staff and patients are not being kept safe enough.
Hospitals are so underfunded, many don't have adequate resources to control infection e.g. peroxide bomb machines in infected wards are not available in all hospitals. Do all hospital air con systems have the right filters?
Staff PPE is inadequate - very low quality, does not cover the person properly either.
Tests take too long and patients awaiting tests are often kept altogether - which is fine if none of them have Covid-19. But when one or more them do have Covid-19 then lots of other patients also waiting for results get infected unnecessarily. The government need to prioritise the NHS for the new rapid tests.

And many nurses don't get to wear the hospital scrubs that are boil-washed by hospital services.
They have to wear their own uniform which gets taken home, washed in domestic family machine then goes back into hospital from homes.
The government have had 6 months to sort out proper hygienic scrub provision for everyone inside hospitals and has not done this.
Infection brought into homes on scrubs and infection brought into hospitals from homes due to hospital's refusal to provide all doctors and nurses with scrubs.

disconnect indeed,

its a crime this was ever put into staff remit anyway - it should always have been kept in house.

There are some really dirty people out there with zero hygiene, they don't care. I've seen firsthand on a children's intensive care unit, actual parents walk on past the hand washing stations. I had to share a kitchen on the ward with those people, what I saw was absolutely disgusting.

Because no one - NO ONE - ok maybe the odd person amongst 10s of thousands here in London is bothering to wear one.

Wrt hospital transmission, a relative was admitted to hospital last month (a major UK hospital) and was not tested for CV once.

I clearly remember government promises to set up regular testing of healthcare professionals - this never happened. My relative working in hospital has never once been screened or had any Covid-19 test.
Has to wear own uniform, wears to and from work (there aren't changing rooms), has to wash in home washing machine.
Hospital doesn't have the peroxide bombs to clean affected wards properly.
Tests on patients take ages to return results. Patients awaiting results all kept together.
Air con may be circulating virus around.
The government has had 6 months to get on top of this stuff, but EOTHO was more important for spending priorities than infection control within hospitals. NHS staff and patients let down again.

The virus is only dangerous to vulnerable people.
It is not dangerous for the majority.
We should keep to hygienic measures like hand washing and staying at home if having symptoms.
But all the masks and social distancing should be ended as they have not been proven to be effective.
We will live with this virus like we live with flu.
Please, stop living in fear and don't believe BBC fear mongering.

@Disconnect

What's this peroxide bomb you keep referring to?

@Lunar567

The virus is only dangerous to vulnerable people.

Oh well, fuck them then.

@DumplingsAndStew
'Hydrogen Peroxide Vapor Systems' seems to be more correct term!

Some hospitals are very good at infection control, some are terrible. It varies very widely indeed.

Sometimes infections can be traced back to the air con (I know of one ICU where this was the case).

Sometimes infected wards are just manually cleaned instead of using these peroxide systems that my relative in a hospital thinks are quite good. Some hospitals don't even have the equipment to use these measures.

And pp said, sometimes the visitors are irresponsible and anti-social, and won't obey the rules and bring infection into hospital.

There's a lag in cases. Evidence shows that Eat out to help out, was a bad decision in both terms of the economy and public health. That reignited it.

Schools have gone back, people not observing the rules, not wearing masks when they can, people back at work in many cases etc etc etc.

We weren't good at lock down first time round. We didn't really do it as strictly as other countries.

Track and trace rubbish...messaging not clear...mps rebelling re precautions (mostly the ERG lot - no surprise there), Cummings...

Could go on an on....

Only a small percentage of people fully quarantine when required to do so when returning from abroad, due to close contact with a confirmed case, if they have symptoms or if a household member has symptoms. This is for a variety of reasons some understandable but more than often it's because people do not think the rules apply to them or because they think 'I'm only popping to the shops' or because they don't have symptoms themselves. Unless people isolate when they should we are fighting a loosing battle.

Cases increased too early on September to be blamed on schools. There is very little evidence of transmission within schools thus far that I'm aware of. I think a combination of people returning from holidays abroad in August, particularly from places where cases were increasing like Spain and France, families gathering more over the holidays, Eat Out to Help Out and failure to quarantine.

I'm in NI. Our cases are rising daily. There is supposed to be no household mixing here at all, except for a service provider or childcare.

My job involves going into other people's homes, I've had numerous people tell me that they have been to parties in pubs, ( before they were legally open ), have had continuous visitors as 'they are not going to keep people out' and I don't know anyone who's had it, so it isn't real.

Also in my area there is a hell of a lot of men late twenties upwards, a lot who are in hi-viz jackets, so work-men, not wearing masks when inside shops.

Cases will continue to rise and will keep this running on longer than necessary for the rest of us.

Ps the other thing is that people don't go to get tested, you hear people saying I have a cough but it's not a covid cough, or I feel so crap but it's not covid, or I kept the kids off etc. Maybe none are covid but how are you sure unless you get a test?!

I find it very bizarre that we are allowed to go to a coffee shop in a group of 6 from different households and sit round the same table. No distancing no masks. Same in pubs and restaurants.
Except you're not actually allowed to do this. You don't have to wear masks at the table, but you should be distancing from people in the group who aren't from your household or support bubble. So you need a really large table, or to sit at separate adjacent tables so you can distance.

Weekly Covid surveillance report by Public Health England

People keep referring to that but it's incomplete. Or I am incompetent. I don't mind being incompetent, but still I can't find the transmission setting info that people say they found.

Like this PHE report: comments on settings that had 2+ ARI. Not every ARI is covid and domestic homes are excluded I believe . So that's very incomplete info about where covid is transmitting. I doubt below list simply accounted for most of the 7000 cases on Monday alone.

ARI counts are (most to least)
341 educational places (huge range)
195 care homes
124 workplaces
48 other (which I don't think includes private homes)
36 hospitals
22 restaurants/food outlets
6 prisons

but covid cases by count of relevant setting were
222 educational settings (will include children's nurseries & Unis, so huge number of places, really need a rate of what % are affected)
134 care homes
102 workplaces (but excludes the other categories which are also workplaces !? )
31 hospitals
22 other unspecified
17 restaurants/food outlets
4 prisons

Because many don’t or won’t wear them. But mainly as cases are in schools, care homes and private homes where masks aren’t used in the main.

@yeOldeTrout

Weekly Covid surveillance report by Public Health England

People keep referring to that but it's incomplete. Or I am incompetent. I don't mind being incompetent, but still I can't find the transmission setting info that people say they found.

Like this PHE report: comments on settings that had 2+ ARI. Not every ARI is covid and domestic homes are excluded I believe . So that's very incomplete info about where covid is transmitting. I doubt below list simply accounted for most of the 7000 cases on Monday alone.

ARI counts are (most to least)
341 educational places (huge range)
195 care homes
124 workplaces
48 other (which I don't think includes private homes)
36 hospitals
22 restaurants/food outlets
6 prisons

but covid cases by count of relevant setting were
222 educational settings (will include children's nurseries & Unis, so huge number of places, really need a rate of what % are affected)
134 care homes
102 workplaces (but excludes the other categories which are also workplaces !? )
31 hospitals
22 other unspecified
17 restaurants/food outlets
4 prisons

The presentation by Chris Whitty helps understand the 'educational settings' sector - the lines for under 17's were low and relatively stable. The lines for 17-18 and 18-21 were high and rapidly increasing. Therefore, the cases in 'educational settings' are mostly in colleges and universities, not schools.