Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Covid

Mumsnet doesn't verify the qualifications of users. If you have medical concerns, please consult a healthcare professional.

People STILL not wearing masks on London buses

579 replies

custard6543 · 27/09/2020 14:09

I had to take a journey by bus earlier. There were about 10 people on the bus, three of whom were not wearing masks. Drivers need to stop letting people on without masks - these selfish passengers are putting everyone else’s lives at risk! Sad

OP posts:
PennyDreadfuI · 27/09/2020 17:51

It's deeply deeply offensive using rape and DV as a justification for no masks

Tell that to the survivors of rape/DV who cannot wear masks.

Akire · 27/09/2020 17:52

Of course. I’m disabled myself. But we are not talking about “just disabilities” or “just” PTSD. An ex army veteran triggers will be very different than a rape victim who can’t cope with something over their face. Not everyone who’s suffered DV will have been choked either and have that trigger.

I have acute asthma myself, wearing a mask does not make it harder to breathe. In an attack the only thing that helps is my inhaler. If I’m without my inhaler but wearing a mask- the mask isn’t going make it worse. At that point I can bearly breathe mask or not.

There has to be a middle ground between everyone is take the piss and everyone is too ill to wear one. If we can sort that it better for everyone. Sadly at the moment more could be done so those than can do.

LangClegsInSpace · 27/09/2020 17:53

They may not be 100% effective but short of locking yourself away what else have we got?

This is the problem isn't it? People honestly believe the only tools we have against this virus are lockdowns and masks!

Since the beginning, WHO have been telling us 'find, test, isolate and treat every case, trace and quarantine every contact'

Seven months in and we're still only paying lip service to this. We've put in some half-arsed systems that have achieved nothing much except for making profit for Boris's mates - and now these systems are falling to bits altogether.

Nobody seems that bothered about this. It's all to do with the fucking masks!

If every single person wore a mask everywhere and anybody who could not wear one was confined to their home, this would still be pissing in the ocean unless we get test, trace and isolate right.

PennyDreadfuI · 27/09/2020 17:53

@SheepandCow

Georgina Fallows

HeIenaDove · 27/09/2020 17:54

@LangClegsInSpace Totally agree They have had seven months to sort it. SEVEN MONTHS Tossers.

SheepandCow · 27/09/2020 17:55

@HeIenaDove

Would you be willing to tell Georgina Fallows that she is being offensive.
I'm assuming she's one of the extremely tiny minority of people who have a PTSD response to a mask?

I'd hope she understands she doesn't speak for any other rape or dv survivor other than herself - and that she recognises her own unique response can't be used as a justification to cause many other rape and DV survivors immeasurably deep distress at being made to re-experience the lack of control over their safety.

Underhisi · 27/09/2020 17:57

No one can speak for anyone but themselves.

HeIenaDove · 27/09/2020 17:57

I dont think she has ever claimed to speak for anyone else.

JKRowlingIsMyQueen · 27/09/2020 17:59

@Oliversmumsarmy

Did they all tell the police they weren't exempt? Did the police ask for proof? What exactly happened

I am assuming they asked for proof that they were exempt but couldn’t produce anything so they got a fine

Stop making things up, there is no proof to pteduce because by law, no one is allowed to know your private medical information.
HeIenaDove · 27/09/2020 17:59

From the Gov. website.

Exemption cards
Those who have an age, health or disability reason for not wearing a face covering should not be routinely asked to give any written evidence of this, this includes exemption cards. No person needs to seek advice or request a letter from a medical professional about their reason for not wearing a face covering.
Some people may feel more comfortable showing something that says they do not have to wear a face covering. This could be in the form of an exemption card, badge or even a home-made sign.
This is a personal choice and is not necessary in law.
Access exemption card templates
For exemptions in different parts of the UK please refer to the specific guidance for Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales.

AwaAnBileYerHeid · 27/09/2020 18:00

To those giving you a garden time saying that all those people had medical exemptions... yes, of course 30% of all passengers had medical reasons as to why they couldn't wear masks. Of course. And 3 people might not be many and it may be possible that they were exempt but it's about the same figure when you're on a packed bus.

JKRowlingIsMyQueen · 27/09/2020 18:01

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

Londonmummy66 · 27/09/2020 18:02

I'm pleased to hear that they are checking people on the tube. I don't have a problem with individuals without masks. What does bug me though are the many people (usually men) who get on the tube with their mask around their neck. There are loads of them and I can't help thinking that they masked up to get through the barrier and then just pulled them down as they cba wearing them.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 27/09/2020 18:02

@Oliversmumsarmy

Did they all tell the police they weren't exempt? Did the police ask for proof? What exactly happened

I am assuming they asked for proof that they were exempt but couldn’t produce anything so they got a fine

What proof do you expect people to have?
SheepandCow · 27/09/2020 18:03

@HeIenaDove

I dont think she has ever claimed to speak for anyone else.
I don't expect she did. I suspect her experience has been seized upon by other people with an anti mask agenda. That's not her fault - and in fact, it's pretty low on the part of those other people to exploit her trauma. Particularly when it comes at the expense of other traumatised people.
HeresMe · 27/09/2020 18:04

It's deeply deeply offensive using rape and DV as a justification for no masks

Wow just wow it's disgusting someome should post this.

People are getting generally worse.

Alonelonelyloner · 27/09/2020 18:04

I'm assuming that the UK is full of people with disabilities (mental or physical or emotional), as I literally see ZERO people without a mask where I live since about April.

Clearly there are multiple serious health issues in the UK, in addition to Covid19, which should be dealt with.

EveryPlanetHasAYorkshire · 27/09/2020 18:05

@Alonelonelyloner

I'm assuming that the UK is full of people with disabilities (mental or physical or emotional), as I literally see ZERO people without a mask where I live since about April.

Clearly there are multiple serious health issues in the UK, in addition to Covid19, which should be dealt with.

Uh, what?
THisbackwithavengeance · 27/09/2020 18:05

MN is weird. 5 months ago, anyone who left their house more than once a day was a "covidiot' and directly responsible for wiping out care homes.

And yet all the same posters are now strangely insistent that the large percentage of people who refuse to wear a mask in shops and trains are all disabled and absolutely cannot wear one. Rather than just not wanting to wear one.

Bizarre.

HeIenaDove · 27/09/2020 18:07

www.disabilitynewsservice.com/coronavirus-fears-over-face-covering-hate-crime-as-new-laws-go-live/

Coronavirus: Fears over ‘face covering hate crime’ as new laws go live
By John Pring on 23rd July 2020
Category: Crime

Listen
Listen with webReader

Focus
Disabled people have raised serious concerns about the rising tide of coronavirus-related disability hate crime, amid fears that this could increase even further when new laws on the wearing of face coverings go live tomorrow.

From tomorrow (Friday), it will be compulsory to wear a face covering in shops and supermarkets in England.

Many disabled people are exempt, the government has made clear.

But despite those exemptions, many disabled people who cannot wear face coverings have already been subjected to disability-related hostility online and while travelling on public transport, where it is already compulsory – except for those with exemptions – to wear a face covering.

Stephen Brookes, a former coordinator of the Disability Hate Crime Network and now an ambassador for Disability Rights UK, has written to key figures in government, the police, the Crown Prosecution Service (CPS) and disability organisations about his concerns on “mask hostility”.

He says in his letter: “In my 12 years of dealing with disability hate crime up to June 2018, it was clear that abuse of disabled people has always been problematic at times of tension, but we are now in uncharted territory, which is supported by examples we are seeing at all levels.”

Brookes (pictured, left), who is also the minister for disabled people’s rail sector champion, although he was not speaking in that capacity, added: “We must both re-assure and support disabled people in terms of real hostility and remind perpetrators that verbal abuse can still be recognised as a potential hate crime and as such will not be tolerated.

“Can we all take stock and ensure that disabled people are not bullied out of any normal life we should be able to expect, and remind the public and those who affect our lives that the added pressure of fear should not be added to an already difficult situation.”

He has also now raised concerns about comments made during a radio interview yesterday (Wednesday) by the Metropolitan police’s commissioner, Cressida Dick.

Asked about customers who were refusing to wear masks in shops, she told LBC: “My hope is that the vast majority of people will comply, and that people who are not complying will be shamed into complying or shamed to leave the store by the store keepers or by other members of the public.”

Brookes said: “This statement by Met chief Cressida Dick is most seriously unhelpful, and potentially could lead to hostility and hate crime against those who can’t wear face masks.

“She needs to change and clarify that view most urgently.”

Last week, Fazilet Hadi (pictured, centre), head of policy for Disability Rights UK, called on the government to recognise the need for “balanced messaging” on face coverings, including “that some disabled people cannot wear face coverings and that this should be respected”.

She told the minister for disabled people, Justin Tomlinson, in a letter: “If the messaging doesn’t change, millions of disabled people will not be able to safely leave their homes.

“For those of us that do, we will experience fear, anxiety, possible conflict with public and police and demands to prove our impairment/illness.”

Inclusion London is the lead organisation for the London DDPO Hate Crime Partnership, working with 20 Deaf and disabled people’s organisations (DDPOs) across the capital.

During the coronavirus crisis, it has been running a weekly survey of DDPOs that run hate crime advocacy services on the incidence and types of hate crime disabled people have experienced during lockdown, and now it is being eased.

Its latest weekly survey found 62 per cent of DDPOs reported an increase in disability hate crime referrals on the previous week.

Among the trends, Inclusion London has seen a rise in disability hate crime by neighbours of disabled people, and an increase in cases of disabled people being spat at while out in public because of the mistaken idea that disabled people are “virus spreaders”.

There has also been an increase in online hate crime, with disabled people “told that their lives are inferior and [that they] are taking up resources from non-disabled people”.

Disabled people have also reported being targeted while shopping if they have personal assistants or carers with them or if they need priority in shopping queues.

Inclusion London said: “Disability hate crime during the coronavirus pandemic has not come from nowhere – the image of disabled people as virus spreaders and taking resources from non-disabled people must be tackled.”

It added: “The core belief that disabled people’s lives are of less value than non-disabled people must be continually challenged through working closely with DDPOs.”

Another to have become concerned about online disability hate crime is disabled campaigner Victoria Langley.

She said she had been told on social media that disabled people like her should be locked inside until there was a vaccine because they “are more likely to catch it and pass it on”.

One nurse told her on Instagram that all those not wearing masks should be forced to sign away their rights to health equipment and treatment by health professionals who are “risking their lives because of you

Another woman told her on Instagram: “Trees are awesome and worth sobbing over.

Bus drivers getting killed because they’re doing their job are worth sobbing over, people who don’t wear a mask because they are disabled, not worth sobbing for

“I looked at your profile, you seemed fine???”

Langley said she found the widespread hostile comments on social media “scary” as a disabled person

She said: “It’s made me petrified to go out.

“I’m scared to go out because people are not just being hostile, they do not care that being disabled makes it hard.

“I feel totally scared and boxed in with zero support.

“The government are ending all support and saying go out, but the general public want us locked in. I feel helpless and scared.”

Disabled researcher, author and campaigner David Wilkin (pictured, right) has been collecting examples of disabled people who have been subjected to disability-related hostility linked to the government’s COVID-19 regulations.

Wilkin, the lead coordinator of the Disability Hate Crime Network, has already collected more than 50 such cases.

One disabled passenger on public transport, who cannot wear a face covering, was targeted by another passenger, who shouted: “This person hasn’t got a mask. This person is trying to infect us. They are trying to kill us.”

A disabled train passenger who did not have a face mask because of breathing difficulties was confronted by another passenger, who refused to listen to their explanation, took a spare mask out of their pocket and forced them to put it on

Wilkin said: “They were under so much pressure that they put the face mask on and left the train

They felt that was the only way to placate the offender

Wilkin said he was concerned there would be further cases when the ban in shops and supermarkets comes into force tomorrow.

He said: “It’s definitely a concern. It’s bad enough to be grounded because you don’t want to use public transport, but you have to eat.

“The general concern is that the government, while they have delivered clear messages about face coverings… are not making the same number of messages about the exemptions.

“That is causing real problems.”

But he said he believed the government and public bodies were listening, as he has online meetings next week with both the Cabinet Office and CPS.

A CPS spokesperson told Disability News Service (DNS): “The law exempts those who cannot put on or wear a face covering because of physical or mental illness or impairment, or disability while using public transport.

“The same exemption will apply when face coverings become mandatory in shops.

“Our updated guidance to prosecutors will make this clear.

“If disabled people are victims of hate crime as a result then the CPS won’t hesitate to prosecute perpetrators if our legal test is met.”

Deputy chief constable Mark Hamilton, hate crime lead for the National Police Chiefs’ Council, told DNS in a statement: “We understand that many disabled people, and particularly those with ‘hidden’ disabilities, could be worried about being challenged by others if they are not wearing face coverings in a setting that requires it.

“Government guidelines set out a number of exemptions to the wearing of masks, including on grounds of disability.

“Some external organisations have developed ways to indicate that an individual is exempt, such as wearing badges.

“The government and the police have developed extensive guidance on these requirements, and police officers across the country have received training on how to recognise where an individual may have an exemption due to disability.”

He added: “Any disabled person who is victim of hate crime should report it to the police by either calling 999 (in an emergency) or 101.

“Additionally, you can report crime online at True Vision (report-it.org.uk). True Vision also contains helpful information and guidance materials on disability hate crime and COVID-19

ChardonnaysPetDragon · 27/09/2020 18:11

Most non mask wearers are young men, they are mostly travelling in groups.

Statistically the possibility of all of them being unable to wear masks for any reason but being arseholes is very slim.

they are making it very difficult for genuine people who are exempt.

HeIenaDove · 27/09/2020 18:12

"MN is weird. 5 months ago, anyone who left their house more than once a day was a "covidiot' and directly responsible for wiping out care homes.

And yet all the same posters are now strangely insistent that the large percentage of people who refuse to wear a mask in shops and trains are all disabled and absolutely cannot wear one. Rather than just not wanting to wear one"

Its the same posters is it? I await your links to prove your point.

Ive never done the former.

As for the latter..................no one is saying anything of the sort. Just pointing out that people are exempt due to disability/medical conditions/PTSD.

Im childfree by choice. How would you like it if i started slagging off parents and treating them all as one big homogenous mass.

SheepandCow · 27/09/2020 18:13

@HeresMe

It's deeply deeply offensive using rape and DV as a justification for no masks

Wow just wow it's disgusting someome should post this.

People are getting generally worse.

It's pretty disgusting to dismiss what I'm saying. Go and look up the thread from a few weeks ago. You'll see mixed views on masks - including some rape and DV survivors (who experienced suffocation) talking about their trauma when seeing lack of masks, because of their need to feel safe.

People should not be using traumatised survivors, whose experiences and responses are all unique, as a justification for non compliance with mask wearing. Survivors unable to wear masks are a tiny tiny minority, don't represent all survivors, and certainly don't account for the majority of people not wearing masks.

SheepandCow · 27/09/2020 18:15

@ChardonnaysPetDragon

Most non mask wearers are young men, they are mostly travelling in groups.

Statistically the possibility of all of them being unable to wear masks for any reason but being arseholes is very slim.

they are making it very difficult for genuine people who are exempt.

This.