People STILL not wearing masks on London buses

[custard6543]

I had to take a journey by bus earlier. There were about 10 people on the bus, three of whom were not wearing masks. Drivers need to stop letting people on without masks - these selfish passengers are putting everyone else’s lives at risk!

No one is assuming everyone is a pisstaker, please show where people have implied this.

Have you not seen any of the posts where it is implied or outright said that anyone not wearing a mask be banished from public life?!

Of course, a few posts later they usually concede 'of course not those with exemptions!' but, this is not thought of to start with, at all. And is kind of impossible to do too. So anyone who thinks you should not be able to do anything without a mask, is discriminating. They might have good reasons for said discrimination..they might be high risk/have a high risk family member and be concerned for themselves (in honesty, most care about themselves and their situation above others..) but..it is discriminatory to say this IMO.

Its not necessarily wrong, but it does discriminate against many. In the same way not wearing a mask puts many at risk too..

Difficult situation tbh. As with most to do with this virus, I wish I had the answers, I really really do.

Difficult situation tbh. As with most to do with this virus, I wish I had the answers, I really really do.

I'd settle for anyone having them!

@BatShite
“Have you not seen any of the posts where it is implied or outright said that anyone not wearing a mask be banished from public life?“

No I haven’t, maybe implied but not outright. I think most posts have acknowledged there are genuine cases but maybe I’ve not read them all thoroughly. If they do, that is wrong.

“(in honesty, most care about themselves and their situation above others..)”

Not sure about this, I find many are very worried about vulnerable parents and other dependents.

“Its not necessarily wrong, but it does discriminate against many. In the same way not wearing a mask puts many at risk too..

Difficult situation tbh. As with most to do with this virus, I wish I had the answers, I really really do.”

Yes I agree with this, and I don’t want the true exempt to feel discriminated against either.

Yes I totally agree!

Not sure about this, I find many are very worried about vulnerable parents and other dependents.

Which would be their situation.

Someone with no high risk people in their circle would be unlikely to be as concerned as someone who cares for their elderly mother who is massively high risk. Its not wrong to feel like this and to see things based on your circumstances, its just human nature tbh.

Same as it seems to be human nature to blame other people for whats going on. Instead of putting the blame where it should be at the moment, on the ones who fucked up test and trace and continue fucking it up.

@LangClegsInSpace

“This is irrelevant because whether we agree with it or not, the government has said nobody is required to prove they are exempt.”

True, but then they want to fine people who don’t comply?

I don't understand how fines for non compliance would work in reality, as there is no way to prove they do NOT have an exemption if they say they do. Infact, I wonder how many fines have been given out,. as IMO it would rely on the person openly admitting they don't have an exemption which would be unlikely as everyone knows no proof is required and you can just say it..(of course, this makes you a shitty person, but if you are ignoring the rules anyway, nothing to say you wouldn't also just say you had an exemption if caught)

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

“What an interesting double standard that you haven't interpreted people who agree with the OP as telling the vulnerable individuals they want to throw under the bus to stop moaning and suck it up. And no, it's perfectly possible to talk about feelings of anxiety whilst not deluding yourself that you can tell by looking whether a stranger is exempt or not.””

I haven’t told or implied anyone to suck it up, I can absolutely see both sides here. It sounds like you can too, but have not offered up any solutions, hence the “suck it up”. I would go down the exemption card route, but admit even that has flaws. The only people I take exception to are those who refuse to wear one because they can’t be bothered.

“I'd settle for anyone having them!”

Yes indeed!

Eng123 I very much doubt you have the medical qualifications to decide what is made up nonsense.

@BatShite Have you not seen any of the posts where it is implied or outright said that anyone not wearing a mask be banished from public life?!

These posts don't exist. Find one, just one where the words 'all people not wearing masks' or 'banished from public life' are used.

Meanwhile back in the real world I potentially have a very important meeting tomorrow cancelled because my contact is waiting for test results after using the track and trace app. I've had someone else tell me (Who has had the virus) that he will not be downloading the app as he doesn't want to be forced into quarantine if he's on the tube with someone who is then found to have it.

If we can't get people to comply with mask wearing how are we going to get them to comply with this? It's not happening. Masks are an effective and visible sign of compliance. Everyone wearing them means everyone else WHO CAN wears them. That's kind of the bottom line.

No, they don't exist at all

Did you read the OP of this thread.. 'Drivers need to stop letting people on without masks '. Qualified later by 'of course not those with exemptions' but..originally on about banning all non mask wearers.

Again, I do not agree with those not wearing them when not exempt. I agree such people are selfish dicks. But until someone has a way to solve this, I don't see what can be done and to deny a lot seem to be quite happy to just stop non mask wearers from going out, seems as daft as pretending all non mask wearers have an exemption.

Reluctantly I think the answer is for the Government to require people to get medical exemptions, at least for areas with a lot of mask avoiding. It’s a pain, and will involve lots of work, but in some parts of the country it seems to be necessary.

It all reinforces why we couldn’t do what Sweden did - which I think is a shame. Even with mandatory measures, too many people take the piss.

@Derbygerbil

Reluctantly I think the answer is for the Government to require people to get medical exemptions, at least for areas with a lot of mask avoiding. It’s a pain, and will involve lots of work, but in some parts of the country it seems to be necessary.

It all reinforces why we couldn’t do what Sweden did - which I think is a shame. Even with mandatory measures, too many people take the piss.

I agree with this I think, though obviously its also unfair to a few . It seems the best way to hurt the fewest people. Doesn't seem this is on the agenda though, at all. Also if the level of 'proof' required is anything close to..whats required for PIP..then nope nope nope. Consultants ignored in favour of someone who has done 2 weeks 'disability training'?! But there should be some form of system in place to identify genuine exemptions I think. As much as..again, I don't think people with exemptions should have to identify themselves as such as I think its unfair to expect people t disclose their disabilities in such a way..there are many many people taking the pee.

Also it needs to be considered that its not necessarily medical problems that make an exemption needed. A large number it will be because of trauma, and this will not necessarily be known to medical professionals. But, a little thought could make the process quite simple and not harsh on the person 'applying'. Just..would such thought be given? Something has to give though really.

There is no evidence masks prevent the coronavirus anyway. The virus would just go through the holes just as air does.

You are being ridiculous.

@redbushtea

There is no evidence masks prevent the coronavirus anyway. The virus would just go through the holes just as air does.

You are being ridiculous.

There is evidence masks help. Whats disputed is that the general public wearing masks helps much. It clearly does IF people follow the rules properly, given evidence seems to say so. But someone shoving on the same mask they have had for 6 months and just shove in their pockets/bag when not in use? I cannot see that making much difference, and it has the potential to make things worse I would think. I think its recommended that they are changed every 2 hours? I do wonder how many are actually doing that, I suspect not many at all..

I haven’t told or implied anyone to suck it up, I can absolutely see both sides here.

I didn't say you had. It was OP who was doing it with her suggestion, but for whatever reason you didn't identify her as such.

I don't understand how fines for non compliance would work in reality, as there is no way to prove they do NOT have an exemption if they say they do.

I'm not sure many have actually come to court yet. If people don't pay the fine, it will go initially to the magistrates and they will have the option to argue that they didn't break the law because they were exempt. That's when it will get complex.

For example, the regs don't give blanket exemptions for sufferers of certain conditions, it's exemptions where the condition means they can't wear a mask. If someone has a particular condition and argues that it means they're exempt, the prosecution then needs to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that they weren't. There could be cases where that's going to take some quite sophisticated medical advice to see what side it might come down on. Imagine a MH professional being asked to give a view on how far someone can push their PTSD. Which is before we even start to consider the potentially very wide severe distress exemption.

@redbushtea

The virus tends to be in exhaled water droplets. These droplets are largely caught by the mask - hence the reason it becomes a bit damp over time.

I don’t like wearing a mask, and am not convinced they have a major impact in shops which are well-ventilated and where people pass fleetingly. Public transport is different though. People in close proximity others for many minutes at a time.

Most people who oppose masks do so because they oppose restrictions on principle, and any “science” they tend to use is a fig-leaf that doesn’t generally stand up to scrutiny.

@MarriedtoDaveGrohl

“If we can't get people to comply with mask wearing how are we going to get them to comply with this? It's not happening. Masks are an effective and visible sign of compliance. Everyone wearing them means everyone else WHO CAN wears them. That's kind of the bottom line.”

Yes I completely agree, I think compliance with the app will be much lower. I don’t admit to fully understanding how it works, but the fear that people could be told to isolate on numerous occasions is bound to put people off, not to mention the financial impact and work related worries.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

For example, the regs don't give blanket exemptions for sufferers of certain conditions, it's exemptions where the condition means they can't wear a mask. If someone has a particular condition and argues that it means they're exempt, the prosecution then needs to prove (beyond reasonable doubt) that they weren't. There could be cases where that's going to take some quite sophisticated medical advice to see what side it might come down on. Imagine a MH professional being asked to give a view on how far someone can push their PTSD. Which is before we even start to consider the potentially very wide severe distress exemption.

Which is all the more reason why those who aren’t wearing masks who can wear masks are selfish arses.... It is they who will force the issue when it didn’t have to be.

People who can wear masks ought to, and I wouldn't ignore the rules myself as a non-exempt person. But given all the documented instances of police getting the various coronavirus regulations completely wrong, there could still be problems with prosecution of people who were exempt and wrongly fined anyway.

And tbf to the police, so much of the legislation has been poorly written, it's not been scrutinised, and in some cases it's been published only a few minutes before it's due. I'm not excusing some of the more appalling police behaviour since March, but we don't have an environment that's conducive to proper understanding of and enforcement of the regulations either. At this point in time none of us know how the severe distress exemption is likely to be interpreted if it comes before the courts.

Some people on this thread need to read the latest issue of Private Eye. I started buying it regularly after the Cummings debacle so ive bought every issue since.

Even with mandatory measures, too many people take the piss.

I think the problem is actually because it was made mandatory.

I think they would have achieved more with a really good public health campaign. There is no law that says you must stay 2m away from others wherever possible but the vast majority of us comply with that because it makes sense and has been well explained.

I think a lot of the anti-maskers are anti precicely because they are mandatory. If they were voluntary it would take a lot of wind from the sails of the conspiracy movement.

The trouble is, if they were to do a good public health campaign they'd have to be honest about the amount of difference masks make and that the real problem is people cramming together, unable to socially distance in the first place. But they made masks mandatory so they could encourage us to cram back onto public transport and back into shops. They don't even care if the mask you are wearing is effective. Any old bit of crap strapped to your face will do. It was all about making people feel 'confident' to get back out and spend money.

I'm not sure the regs have achieved that aim. For every shopper who genuinely feels more confident because people are wearing masks, there's probably another who's staying away because they're exempt and can't face the aggro, or because they just hate wearing one.

@BatShite

“Same as it seems to be human nature to blame other people for whats going on. Instead of putting the blame where it should be at the moment, on the ones who fucked up test and trace and continue fucking it up.”

Yes test and trace is a total disaster and taking up to 5 days to tell people to isolate is probably adding to, not reducing the spread. And anyone with half a brain would have predicted an upsurge in demand when schools went back!

People do have a part to play as well though, whether by distancing more, limiting their social contacts, isolating when exposed, only going for tests when indicated etc etc. All of these measures would reduce the pressure on the testing system.

And yes I think it’s human nature to want to blame, it’s probably not the most constructive thing to do though 🤣.....

But they made masks mandatory so they could encourage us to cram back onto public transport and back into shops. They don't even care if the mask you are wearing is effective. Any old bit of crap strapped to your face will do. It was all about making people feel 'confident' to get back out and spend money

THIS with fucking bells on.