People STILL not wearing masks on London buses

[custard6543]

I had to take a journey by bus earlier. There were about 10 people on the bus, three of whom were not wearing masks. Drivers need to stop letting people on without masks - these selfish passengers are putting everyone else’s lives at risk!

There have been some interesting lab studies that show they can potentially make a bigger difference but it doesn't seem to translate into real world situations.

Funnily enough masks tend not to work when dangling from the ears, or not covering the nose too - or when 30% of the population decides not to bother because "no one else has to, I see people without masks all of the time"

People are sheep. The more they see others 'getting away with' not wearing masks even though they may have sound reasons (but no one can tell because lanyards are an evil oppressors weapon sent to discriminate against the disabled and traumatised) they more they will think they don't have to wear one.

Then masks won't work and you'll be proven right. And we will be in another lockdown with more jobs lost.

Also I think we should all remember that NZ is about twice to three times the land mass of the UK with a total of 4 million people. Sweden is also considerable less densely populated and much larger. And has higher rates than it's scandi neighbours.

France and Spain are so good at mask compliance though. Nobody makes a silly fuss there. Everyone wears it properly. That's how they've kept their numbers so low.

Why is a lanyard or exemption card seen as such a bad thing? It’s not like people are being asked to have what is wrong with them tattooed on their forehead. It could be kept concealed if necessary, to show to the bus driver etc.

Do you feel the same about blue badges? Perhaps we should ban those too and just let anyone park in those wider who chooses to?

@custard6543

Mumsnet is hilarious though. There’s thread upon thread stating how selfish people are for flouting the rule of six. But people who get on a bus without wearing a mask for no good reason, potentially putting the rest of us at risk? Fine!

The whole point is (and the reason why people are taking issue with you) is that you simply cannot know whether the three people on your bus had 'good reason' to be maskless or not.

@custard6543

To be honest I don’t care what you think or whether you believe me - but that’s what happened.

I have no interest in whether you care. It will continue to be the case regardless that you only told us about the mask bit once the large hole in your reasoning was pointed out, and that even if we assume you're telling the truth about that part you still don't know anything about the other two.

If nothing else it's useful as it's highlighted a concerning health crisis in the UK. We seem to have a much higher percentage of people unable to wear masks than other countries.

It's also a safe space (excepting the fuck offs and being called pieces of shit) for people to discuss or vent their concerns. There are millions of people at increased risk from Covid in the UK. And everyone is actually at risk because of Long Covid. It's understandable that some might want to discuss their concerns here.

Had we taken stricter measures earlier we wouldn't be on this thread debating these issues. The sooner Covid is contained, the sooner we have no need for masks or any other restrictions. Unfortunately it seems like we're continuing down the drag it all out road, moaning and complaining every step of the way.

First of all, to know that was true you'd have to be aware what the people who have conditions that would fall under UK exemption laws but don't in their own countries are actually doing. Are they getting on with it and wearing masks, or are they not going out at all? Where would we get this information?

There are some assumptions it might be reasonable to make, for example we have the second highest asthma rates in Europe so unless our asthmatic population is mostly people with the less severe forms of the disease (probably not since we have the highest death rates from the condition too) we might expect to see a higher percentage of the population exempt for this reason than in eg Spain. Certainly that's something we should all be aware of. But then that's only one exemption, and the 'severe distress' exemption is very widely defined and as far as I know there's no case law about what that even means yet.

Secondly, your final paragraph doesn't pertain to the topic at hand. We did not take strict measures, covid is now endemic in some areas and the OP making assumptions she has no way of backing up will have no effect at all on the containment of covid.

@LangClegsInSpace

France and Spain are so good at mask compliance though. Nobody makes a silly fuss there. Everyone wears it properly. That's how they've kept their numbers so low.

Ever since Spain and France mandated masks everywhere their cases have been rising.

Yes, I was being sarcastic, sorry.

(TBF, they had mandatory masks throughout the summer when numbers were low, but masks do not appear to have helped much in recent weeks.)

Why is a lanyard or exemption card seen as such a bad thing? It’s not like people are being asked to have what is wrong with them tattooed on their forehead. It could be kept concealed if necessary, to show to the bus driver etc.

Agree.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer so you think it's fine for me and other vulnerable people to put our lives at risk on the bus then? What is your solution?

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer so you think it's fine for me and other vulnerable people to put our lives at risk on the bus then?

What a bizarre extrapolation. Anyone would think you couldn't think of anything to say that actually addressed my point.

^What a bizarre extrapolation. Anyone would think you couldn't think of anything to say that actually addressed my point.*

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer Ahh, so you don't have a solution. Thought as much! Myself and other vulnerable people wearing masks will just have to take our chances on public transport because we can't afford to get around any other way. Thanks for that!

@custard6543

^What a bizarre extrapolation. Anyone would think you couldn't think of anything to say that actually addressed my point.*

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer Ahh, so you don't have a solution. Thought as much! Myself and other vulnerable people wearing masks will just have to take our chances on public transport because we can't afford to get around any other way. Thanks for that!

Neither do you. Making assumptions about people you don't know and then whining when people point out that you have no idea whether they were exempt or not and your drip feed is suspicious isn't a solution. Nor is you transferring the risk to other vulnerable people, which make no mistake about it is what you do when you advocate that nobody should be allowed to use public transport without a mask.

Though to be fair, your inability to come up with a solution doesn't speak particularly badly of you in itself. Covid has been allowed to probably become endemic in parts of the UK, meaning it's liable to take a lot more than masks to tackle the issue and our mask laws are based on exemptions for which there's no oversight mechanism (hence why the lanyards are a waste of time, anyone who wants one can have one) and include at least one category, severe distress, that has potentially a vast meaning.

@JKRowlingIsMyQueen
@LangClegsInSpace

With respect, aren’t you both missing the point of the OP by mentioning the situation in France and Spain?

Whether we agree with it or not, they are mandatory over here, in certain places where distancing is difficult, except for those few who are exempt. (Obviously distancing is still preferable if possible).

Whether they are effective or not is a separate discussion and not our decision to make in order to justify not wearing one. The only justification for not wearing one is one of the exemptions.

You must know as well as I do, that some (not all) of those who choose not to wear one are not genuine, and are potentially putting others at risk.

How would you feel if you were sat on a bus and a group of non-mask wearing people came and sat right next to or near you? It would be natural to have some concerns.

@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

So basically your advice would be to “ stop moaning and suck it up” to all of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable people who rightly feel anxious and concerned having to sit in close proximity to non-mask wearers, whether exempt or not?

Yes, anyone can get a lanyard, which makes it meaningless, but I can’t imagine the group of lads (or girls) on a night out who aren’t exempt but can’t be arsed wearing masks bothering to get one, can you?

Or perhaps the exemption process needs to be authorised by a medic, like blue badges and shielding letters to formalise it a bit?

It doesn’t bother me because I barely use public transport, but I have colleagues who report the same thing as OP on a regular basis trying to get to work. Some have vulnerable family members at home, so their concerns are genuine.

The point about whether masks work or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t give any of us the choice to wear one or not.

Chestergirl I was responding to a poster who thought the only reason masks don't make much difference in real life situations is because people don't wear them correctly and consistently in the UK.

I would feel alarmed if anybody sat right next to me on a bus whether they were wearing a mask or not. I'm doing everything I can to avoid all indoor crowded situations.

OP's bus didn't sound like it was crowded

And I absolutely will continue to discuss the law tyvm.

Most of the reasons people list for not being able to wear a mask are made up nonsense. It's not nice - ok get on with it! We pander too much to this sort of thing in this country, it's the "every body's special" pandemic. I have every empathy for those afflicted with some genuine issue but it is theirs to deal with not everybody else's. That may sound harsh but it is undeniably true, there is so much talk about rights we forget about individual responsibilities.

I feel so sorry for people who are exempt from wearing a mask as there are so many who can wear them but don't, knowing that there aren't really any consequences. It's so unfair on people who are genuinely exempt.

I was on a bus last week. Out of 14 people, 5 weren't wearing masks, and 2 of the people that were wearing them were wearing them on their chins. I find it hard to believe such a high proportion are exempt.

Yesterday I was in a local pub. Whilst staff were all wearing masks in accordance with new rules I'd say less than 10% of customers were wearing them when they came in, went to the toilet etc. I actually felt a bit foolish wearing mine.

So many people just aren't bothering.

You can't say things like this:

You must know as well as I do, that some (not all) of those who choose not to wear one are not genuine, and are potentially putting others at risk.

How would you feel if you were sat on a bus and a group of non-mask wearing people came and sat right next to or near you? It would be natural to have some concerns.

all of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable people who rightly feel anxious and concerned having to sit in close proximity to non-mask wearers

Some have vulnerable family members at home, so their concerns are genuine.

... and then say The point about whether masks work or not is irrelevant

(Well, you can of course, but it looks a bit silly)

@LangClegsInSpacet

“I'm doing everything I can to avoid all indoor crowded situations.”

Completely agree, same here, feel sorry for those who have no choice to use public transport though.

“OP's bus didn't sound like it was crowded smile”

No, but it was enough to cause her concern, which I can understand, especially with heightened emotions and fears at the moment. Some of my work colleagues experience the same, so it is not a rare thing to happen.

“And I absolutely will continue to discuss the law tyvm.”

Please do, it is interesting 😀

@LangClegsInSpace

You can't say things like this:

You must know as well as I do, that some (not all) of those who choose not to wear one are not genuine, and are potentially putting others at risk.

How would you feel if you were sat on a bus and a group of non-mask wearing people came and sat right next to or near you? It would be natural to have some concerns.

all of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable people who rightly feel anxious and concerned having to sit in close proximity to non-mask wearers

Some have vulnerable family members at home, so their concerns are genuine.

... and then say The point about whether masks work or not is irrelevant

(Well, you can of course, but it looks a bit silly)

It’s irrelevant because whether we agree or not it is a legal requirement, one of a range of measures brought in to keep us safe. Like wearing a seatbelt.

We can have an opinion on their effectiveness, but that is a separate discussion to this post. We can’t change the fact that we have to wear them, unless you are the PM or a government scientist of course.

[quote Chestergirl39]@OpenlyGayExOlympicFencer

So basically your advice would be to “ stop moaning and suck it up” to all of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable people who rightly feel anxious and concerned having to sit in close proximity to non-mask wearers, whether exempt or not?

Yes, anyone can get a lanyard, which makes it meaningless, but I can’t imagine the group of lads (or girls) on a night out who aren’t exempt but can’t be arsed wearing masks bothering to get one, can you?

Or perhaps the exemption process needs to be authorised by a medic, like blue badges and shielding letters to formalise it a bit?

It doesn’t bother me because I barely use public transport, but I have colleagues who report the same thing as OP on a regular basis trying to get to work. Some have vulnerable family members at home, so their concerns are genuine.

The point about whether masks work or not is irrelevant, it doesn’t give any of us the choice to wear one or not.[/quote]
So basically your advice would be to “ stop moaning and suck it up” to all of the vulnerable and non-vulnerable people who rightly feel anxious and concerned having to sit in close proximity to non-mask wearers, whether exempt or not?

What an interesting double standard that you haven't interpreted people who agree with the OP as telling the vulnerable individuals they want to throw under the bus to stop moaning and suck it up. And no, it's perfectly possible to talk about feelings of anxiety whilst not deluding yourself that you can tell by looking whether a stranger is exempt or not.

Or perhaps the exemption process needs to be authorised by a medic, like blue badges and shielding letters to formalise it a bit?

That's one option yes, if the government were willing to fund it (unlikely so probably hypothetical). We have a problem with people essentially wanting a regulation system that doesn't exist, and that exempt people aren't in a position to create by themselves. Being optimistic, it might potentially lead to more trust in the system than we have now. Although it would still leave us with the problem of, essentially, choosing which group of vulnerable people we give priority in a situation where the virus has been allowed to become endemic.

Oh I don't know what I did there, I wasn't actually trying to quote the whole post! Hopefully people can still read it.

Or perhaps the exemption process needs to be authorised by a medic, like blue badges and shielding letters to formalise it a bit?

This is irrelevant because whether we agree with it or not, the government has said nobody is required to prove they are exempt.

So other bus users (including vulnerable passengers) have to put our lives at risk because some people are selfishly not wearing masks for no genuine reason? How is that right or fair? Or do we not matter?

I am certainly not saying the others do not matter, but I don't realistically see a way around it that doesn't consist of 'if you cannot wear a mask, stay in'. Even a blue badge type system would be unfair to many as its not rally a medical issue that stops them wearing it, its past trauma which they may not have disclosed to anyone and I am not really comfortable saying that those with trauma MUST tell someone else be banished to their homes. Its a bit similar to 'the rape clause' in the benefit system to me, just seems massively harsh and likely to hit women the most.

If someone is not wearing a mask, its fairly easy to stay the required distance from then too, unless a bus/whatever is hugely crowded, in which case I would avoid it anyway (but understand not everyone can, appointments or whatever).

I don't agree with people not wearing one 'just because'. But I don't see a way to avoid this. Which is why I just try to not even bloody register masks at all and just stay distanced from everyone regardless. Masks are not the catchall they are m,ade out to be anyway I suspect.

But yeah, I understand those who are scared of people taking the pee. Completely. But..a workaround doesn't exist at the min. I know not all not wearing are genuine..of course. But given there isn't a way to tell genuine from pisstaker..I don't see an answer

(As for young fit lads..DSSs best mate cannot wear one because of both severe asthma and trauma when much younger. He 'looks fine' so would likely be assumed to be one of the pisstakers, especially as a young lad. Thats not to say all young lads are genuine, not at all, but not all are not exempt either)

Useful post batshite.