Are schools the reason for the surge?

[NebularNerd]

Thousands of people mixing daily with no social distancing.

Children pass the virus on, as BJ has said recently (despite previously saying otherwise).

Surely even if other measures are put in place, the numbers will continue to rise?

Are schools behind the surge?

[quote Dorual]@timeforanotherusername

There's more ill children than healthy children at our school. Probably a cold. But no reason why it couldn't be Covid. Teachers are testing positive (reported in news) more often than children. Teachers must be getting it from somewhere... and children are not often eligible for testing as they typically get mild symptoms or asymptomatic. So it's blamed on teachers socialising outside school. Likely story!! I can't believe people can be so naive or yes, in denial.[/quote]
No I’m not in denial.

But why would teachers socialise any less outside that others? A lot of them are relatively young and probably in one of the age groups with the highest rates.

Perhaps children are getting colds because they are now mixing again after 6 months? Kind of what was to be expected. In fact I remember saying it a few times when people were saying don’t open schools until september as if it would all be ok by then.

So no not in denial. I am not socialising as it’s the thing that will most likely get me infected.

As said before, you can have an agenda and you can want to blame the schools for the rise without looking at the actions within the community.

It is possible that data will emerge suggesting high transmission in schools. But if you look to a Scotland that does not seem to be suggested yet.

The difference Scotland and England is that there's clearly a much better availability of tests.

Schools will be starting to become part of the problem due to lack of tests.

You can see that slow rise in the PHE stats @Dorual but nothing like the astronomical rise in positive rhinovirus tests in that age. (Further down the report)

Thousands of people mixing daily with no social distancing.Children pass the virus on, as BJ has said recently (despite previously saying otherwise).Surely even if other measures are put in place, the numbers will continue to rise?Are schools behind the surge?

Yes, if it looks like a duck and quacks like a duck.....

I also believe they can 'rule of 6' until we're all blue in the face on ventilators, but with the germ factories of schools open as normal with no SD, no masks, and large class sizes and with parents not bothering testing given the system is broken - yes, transmission will continue with schools open like this.

I predict they can close pubs, restaurants, whatever and it'll make no difference.

They need to have masks in schools (kids over 6 do this in parts of US, Italy, Spain, Korea, many others) or use community spaces for social distancing (as in Italy and other countries) or we're stuffed.

They seem utterly determined not to fund our children's schools to make them safer though. Far prefer to give all the money to Deloitte.

Neurotrash there is now. But do you not remember the new stories of Scottish children being sent to Preston for example to test.
That was in the week or 2 after schools went back and all the kids got colds.
It’s perhaps not as bad as England due to smaller population but schools absence has fallen since the 1st weeks.

I work in a school. I have never seen as much hand washing and handsantisitising in my life. Cleaners are coming in 4 times a day and staff are cleaning too. All whilst in a very small bubble. The slightest symptom and off pops that person straight away to isolate. No parents in the building or playground allowed. No visitors. Masks in communal areas for staff. PPE provided for staff 24/7.

This is a private school however

This page from the sage report is worth keeping an eye on:

At the moment the close contacts of any positive child will be mixing for 5 school days before the bubble closes.

Schools are EXACTLY the environment that coronavirus spreads in. If rhinoviruses can, so can covid.

It's taken 7 days from symptoms to test result for me.

May I add nothing to be brought in from home or sent home...including paper... and all the while the children are having a fabulous time and a fabulous education and enjoying their time at school

If schools were the reason for the surge, in a disease where the mode incubation period is 5-6 days (range 2-14), then we would only be seeing the rises now.

I think that the rise that coincided with reopening was of transmissions in the last two weeks of the holidays (the summer, outdoors protective effect did not outweigh the risks of bigger gatherings and iffy distancing).

And that we shall see further rises for the next couple of weeks, as the 'real' school reopening effect kicks in

(nice bit of pessimism there for a sunny Sunday)

Minnie it also sounds like a primary?

Here is some data from Scottish schools. But just remember many of you know better than data

public.tableau.com/profile/sg.eas.learninganalysis#!/vizhome/COVID19-SchoolsandChildcareInformation/PupilAttendance-TimeSeries

I do believe it's a cold doing the rounds. I have caught it myself. So has everyone at work! Which shows that transmission if viruses is rife in schools despite extra cleaning measures. Children more likely to transmit Covid asymptomatically to all the 'party-going' teachers!

@MinnieMe1

I work in a school. I have never seen as much hand washing and handsantisitising in my life. Cleaners are coming in 4 times a day and staff are cleaning too. All whilst in a very small bubble. The slightest symptom and off pops that person straight away to isolate. No parents in the building or playground allowed. No visitors. Masks in communal areas for staff. PPE provided for staff 24/7.

This is a private school however

State schools are sadly not like that. We get the children to wash hands and sanitise. But we can't afford constant cleaning.

Hundreds of children using the same toilets. About 50 staff using the same staff toilets. They get cleaned in the morning before the children arrive and that's it.

but there havent been that many outbreaks where dozens in a bubble have tested positive?

There is always this pushback on MN about the definition of outbreak. It is a standard definition : the same for workplaces, care homes, hospitals ; and yet I only ever see it being queried for schools.
I am sure you don't mean to, but posts like this sound a bit thoughtless, as if you only care when there are lots of cases and nothing else counts.

@MinnieMe1

May I add nothing to be brought in from home or sent home...including paper... and all the while the children are having a fabulous time and a fabulous education and enjoying their time at school

The children in my school are also having a great time. Bubbles of 120 children and like I said, minimal cleaning...

Private and state cannot be compared. State schools are doing the best they can with zero extra money.

Why does it need funding to provide masks?

All secondary and FE around here have requested students where masks in corridors. And no request for funding was needed because the population needs masks for shops etc?

So many have them, why do we need funding?
Sure, there could be a little fund for those who can't buy some disposable masks or have a little supply at the setting but sometimes, I really do think this Funding from the government, whilst undoubtedly needed, is also cynically used as a stick to beat the tory government with.

So many schools have shone out with incredible leadership, forward thinking, planning for the march lock down with training on tech, amazing communication with dp, they asked dp, for spare lap tops, they did comprehensive surveys of who and who has not got tech to access lessons. And how? Watch the lesson on the phone? Type it up later?

Their students didn't miss a beat, they managed so called safe guarding issues, they of course mentally and emotionally kept students busy, in touch with their peers, with their teachers. Teachers could in turn monitor their students! Many even got ahead of the curriculum.

Then we have the settings who said, teachers were not used to teaching on line, it was a safe guarding issue, the gov didn't give them lap tops, it wasn't healthy for students to be sat watching screens...

🤷‍♂️

If schools were the reason for the surge, in a disease where the mode incubation period is 5-6 days (range 2-14), then we would only be seeing the rises now

Newcastle schools only went back two weeks ago, a week after others. Newcastle cases were starting to rocket before that. Plus it was hard to get tests and results last week which is when the first cases would have been popping up within schools.

I do believe it's a cold doing the rounds. I have caught it myself. So has everyone at work! Which shows that transmission if viruses is rife in schools despite extra cleaning measures.

Yes, this is what we were saying about the snotty cold that is currently ripping through our class! Also, children haven't been mixing for months and are now sanitising loads so have come across no germs so their immune systems are going to be rubbish against stuff even like common cold etc.

[quote Timeforanotherusername]Here is some data from Scottish schools. But just remember many of you know better than data

public.tableau.com/profile/sg.eas.learninganalysis#!/vizhome/COVID19-SchoolsandChildcareInformation/PupilAttendance-TimeSeries[/quote]
Don’t spoil a good argument with FACTS!!!

Eat out to help out is more likely to have caused the spike.

[quote Timeforanotherusername]Here is some data from Scottish schools. But just remember many of you know better than data

public.tableau.com/profile/sg.eas.learninganalysis#!/vizhome/COVID19-SchoolsandChildcareInformation/PupilAttendance-TimeSeries[/quote]
Excellent some Scottish data

I haven't seen much in the media about schools.
There was a headline to say 3 G.A.A players had contracted covid never mentioning 2 local schools have closed.
There has been 6 cases in my DC school we get a text if it is in their school.
According to a local Facebook page that guarantees only genuine covid cases will be reported you must submit the HSE text to post it is everywhere.
I live in the city centre I'm really unsure of what to do.

But the curve began to change before most schools went back.
Isn’t it more likely to be that lots of people went on holiday in the UK? Moving around the country, inevitably going into shops and restaurants and museums etc

I'm local to the "party teachers" they were a bunch of idiots having a last blow out before schools reopened. It really does only take 1 person to seed a spread like that ( our cases rose before schools went back)